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10 Commandments to improve civ 5

Ghafhi

Warlord
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Messages
206
1. Make editing game play easy. Civ 4 IMO and many other game players sucks because it is difficult to edit, I know countless players who stopped using civ 4 and switched back to civ 3 for this reason, and you can't blame them.
2. Get rid of distance penalties and all those other penalities that punish a civ for being big. Firstly they are illogical. Isn't the point of the game to get as big as possible? Yes with more size comes more corruption in reality, but Canada is big(land mass wise) and Italy is mid-small size, yet millions of Italians come to Canada cause their country is way too corrupt. Is Vancouver more Corrupt than Toronto or Montreal, no. It really makes no sense
3. Get rid of technological punishment. By making a minimum amount of turns you punish small civs who are trying to grow quick. Ie. one time I played Montezuma and it became impossible for me to catch up even though I had more money, land, and power than every other civ. Which leads to my next point
4. If I control 1/4 of the world it makes no sense that it takes me as long to discover one technology as another civ who is way smaller and poorer. Ie. I have 10,000 science points a turn but the other civ has 2000 and we both discover technologies in the smae time
5. Change illogical trade system. It is really silly, with civ 4 there is no way for a Canada or Russia to emerge. These are countries who were once poor but had vast natural resources and were/are able to turn around. In early 1900s Canada was no better place to live than any place in Africa, gov. workers often never got paid, or paid late,food was rationed, it is history. However we exported resources to England until we made enough money to start manufacturing our own stuff. Which was only possible because we traded natural resources for money which we invested in science(which goes back to my point about science limits; there is no way to catch up)
6. Increse production, or decrease production times. I have heard arguments that by limiting production you make it more meaningful and strategic. But what I find is that all the AI does is troop stack so that argument goes out the window. What you get is a unbalanced field where the AI seems to build until it is blue and the human player gets screwd.
7. Import food should be allowed, It makes no sense there is no way a city can be everything, you can't have lots of food, and production. NY and London have virtually all production and so does basically every other major city, these cities do not have farms. There is just no logic to it. Why is it that a city in a desert with a gold mine, silver, aluminum, urnaimum, and a river would not grow past 2? It makes no sense people go to where the can find jobs. Yet a city that is surrounded by grassland would grow to 20. i don't know about you but most people would rather work in a mine than on a farm, the option should at least be there. It makes no sense that if Lyon produces 50 more food than it needs and Paris is starving me as a government could not help my own people.
8. Deficit spending. Why is it your government cannot do this. It makes no sense at all, without this aspect most wars could never exist and most countries would never exist. Every country in the Western world started out with a spending deficit, America nearly went broke because of all the money the owed to other countries.
9. Lending should be an option, why is it that not even a good friend civ will give you tech, money or, etc. Why can't I trade banannas for Nuclear technology? America did this with India this year so why not in the game
10. The movement ratios make no sense. I won't get into railroads, but hey 20 moves(years) for a destroyer to go around the globe, get real
 
The point of CivIV is to be the greatest Civ. In happiness and culture. That's why Russia isn't worshipped daily, it's big and boring.
 
It is quite sad but the real point of this civ game is to run the other civs over in as few turns as possable. (if you go by how the defult score system works)

With a diplomatic system that works like (this one is freind that one is not freind) makes ya think the game was made for toddlers (if only thay had the cordination to take momys/dadys credit card and dial a phone im sure sid and his buddys would be all over that market in a flash).

A unit/combat/management system just begging to eat your computer alive if you allow everyone to build to many and combat so bad that there is no excuse seeing as thay have had so many retrys and years to get it right, plus useing a ******** Unique Unit system that every war/stratagy game and there dog has used thay in my opinion have lost all right to continue this franchise and the only honorable thing to do now would be to take all source code and make it open source, so that the masses of willing modders and programmers can fix this disaster of a product and then give it real teeth real power and real staying power in a real none monopoly market.

I critisize because i care (yeah right)
 
This is exactly what we need for city graphics in Civilization V !!
businessbay3js.jpg

Realistic 3D !
At last.
 
7. Import food should be allowed, It makes no sense there is no way a city can be everything, you can't have lots of food, and production. NY and London have virtually all production and so does basically every other major city, these cities do not have farms. There is just no logic to it. Why is it that a city in a desert with a gold mine, silver, aluminum, urnaimum, and a river would not grow past 2? It makes no sense people go to where the can find jobs. Yet a city that is surrounded by grassland would grow to 20. i don't know about you but most people would rather work in a mine than on a farm, the option should at least be there. It makes no sense that if Lyon produces 50 more food than it needs and Paris is starving me as a government could not help my own people.

Most important point IMO. We need way more synergy in the empire.
 
It comes from a Simcity 5 forum.
But, there is still so much 3D urban graphics existing, it won't be impossible for Firaxis to integrate one of these, or an equivalent, in a futur Civilization 5.

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What about this for a middle era city style ?
 
You forgot one. Fix the combat model. It isn't as bad as Phalanx beat Battleship, but it's close. I'd lose a dozen units attacking while the defender loses, at most, one. The simplified combat model is too simplified. Bring back offense, defense, and firepower ratings and bring back unit health.

You can merge #2 and #4 and say they should scrap the maintenance system altogether. It's way too restrictive and pigeonholes the player into playing only one strategy.
 
And which only one strategy is that? Because near as I can tell, I've got a bunch of choices I can make in how I win the game. I can build peacefully and I can war like mad and I can mix and match. The maintenance system is a headache, yes, but it's a LOT better than ICS (infinite city sprawl) and makes a great deal of sense. Not perfect, but something that accurately simulates the real world would be pretty complicated and boring, and you'd all be complaining about that.

I think the graphics are pretty much fine, but I don't begrudge those who want even better - just don't require me to buy a $3000 computer to be able to play it. The technology to allow multiple levels of computer power to play a game has existed for DECADES. It's called giving the user a choice. So far, Civ4 has done this well enough for me, but not everyone is a non-moron *cough*paradox*cough*EU3won'tevenrunonabrandnew$2000computer*cough*WTH?*cough*

Perhaps there should be some technology to reduce distance maintenance costs... oh wait, there is! It's called the Forbidden Palace! And the Courthouse! And the Maintenance Cap! And developing your cities so they're not all just contributing to ICS! And razing enemy cities that would make it too expensive to run your empire! And liberating cities! And founding Colonies! Well gee, I guess I really dropped the ball on that one.

I will definitely agree about the editing comment. The game needs to be easier to mod - there needs to be some kind of tool like we had in Civ3 that made making mass adjustments easier. Luckily, it's possible for someone to write such a tool (and I think there have been a couple efforts, but don't quote me on that). Luckier still, much of the stuff is in semi-easily edited files called .xml. Not as good as .txt, I know, but you can still use Notepad to edit them. And even luckier, there's a BUNCH of people on this very forum that make all kinds of crap - most of whom would be happy to make you anything you wanted (within their ability), and most of those probably wouldn't even ask for money.

I have not run into a minimum number of turns for research. Are you sure you're not playing Civ3 still? Civ2? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I've researched stuff in 1 turn.

A lot of the other stuff in the main post is just annoyances that are a matter of taste, or simple lack of experience in seeing why things were done the way they were, or bad ideas that would make the game unnecessarily complicated or would be WAY too easy to exploit and make the game unfun.

While I can't say that this combat model is the best ever made, it seems to be the best that Civ has offered. Much of the griping about it seems to be misunderstanding just what you're doing/seeing, or that their 95% attacks seem to fail about 1 time in 20, but they never remember the times they succeed. Considering how many advantages the attacker has, I think there may be a need to give further defense bonuses once aircraft and artillery become ubiquitous.
 
4. If I control 1/4 of the world it makes no sense that it takes me as long to discover one technology as another civ who is way smaller and poorer. Ie. I have 10,000 science points a turn but the other civ has 2000 and we both discover technologies in the smae time

The Civ science system makes sense and does not impose any science penalty on larger civs. If there is a penalty, it is on smaller civs. Every gold unit a civ brings in results in more tech. The larger the civ, the more gold, and there more beakers. If it takes you longer or the same amount of time to develop a tech as a smaller civ, you are not building enough science multipliers (Library, Universities, etc).
[/quote]
5. Change illogical trade system. It is really silly, with civ 4 there is no way for a Canada or Russia to emerge. These are countries who were once poor but had vast natural resources and were/are able to turn around. In early 1900s Canada was no better place to live than any place in Africa, gov. workers often never got paid, or paid late,food was rationed, it is history. However we exported resources to England until we made enough money to start manufacturing our own stuff. Which was only possible because we traded natural resources for money which we invested in science(which goes back to my point about science limits; there is no way to catch up)
[/quote]

How do you want to deal with this?
7. Import food should be allowed, It makes no sense there is no way a city can be everything, you can't have lots of food, and production. NY and London have virtually all production and so does basically every other major city, these cities do not have farms. There is just no logic to it. Why is it that a city in a desert with a gold mine, silver, aluminum, urnaimum, and a river would not grow past 2? It makes no sense people go to where the can find jobs. Yet a city that is surrounded by grassland would grow to 20. i don't know about you but most people would rather work in a mine than on a farm, the option should at least be there. It makes no sense that if Lyon produces 50 more food than it needs and Paris is starving me as a government could not help my own people.
Agreed

8. Deficit spending. Why is it your government cannot do this. It makes no sense at all, without this aspect most wars could never exist and most countries would never exist. Every country in the Western world started out with a spending deficit, America nearly went broke because of all the money the owed to other countries.
How would you handle this without allowing it to be exploited?

9. Lending should be an option, why is it that not even a good friend civ will give you tech, money or, etc. Why can't I trade banannas for Nuclear technology? America did this with India this year so why not in the game
I was surprised trading for techs with resources was taken out. Put it back in!
10. The movement ratios make no sense. I won't get into railroads, but hey
20 moves(years) for a destroyer to go around the globe, get real
[/quote]
1. The movement ratios have to be logical for the game, not for real life.
2. Civ turns and distances should not be compared with real life times and distances. If you have a problem with them, consider the civ world smaller or larger then the real world.
 
This is exactly what we need for city graphics in Civilization V !!
businessbay3js.jpg

Realistic 3D !
At last.

:dubious:

No.....freaking.....way.......:faint:
 
I have not run into a minimum number of turns for research. Are you sure you're not playing Civ3 still? Civ2? I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure I've researched stuff in 1 turn.

I guess that's what he meant. On faster game speeds, it is not exactly difficult to chew techs one per turn.
 
Poor list all around; I would not ask the developers to worry much about any of these things.

#1 - without knowing how to actually program, develop graphics, or other important tools in any game a person can't really change things to a major extent. For minor things, they could improve a few customizable "world creator" type of features, but otherwise you're asking for the impossible.

#2 - if anything these mechanics could and should go further, as the AI still ignores way too much in the current (civ IV) rendition but these features are essential to balance and important to the game. Systems like Rhye's "stability" are cool and a basic check on the overall balance of an empire always makes sense, and in fact this is one promising thing that city states and so on could realistically introduce, so the listed suggestions are a poor idea to remove features.

#3/4 - doesn't and won't exist anyway, unless you are referring to an older civilization series game, but any problem therein has already been corrected

#5 - completely wrong in any way it relates to civilization, land and resources do always yield a lot, political or sociological criticisms of Canada in the real-world are just irrelevent, don't know why that was snuck in there

#6 - it is and will be fine, complaining about the AI means AI balance is what needs work and changes as it always will, not scrapping other features

#7 - tried and tested failure of an idea, it's always been imbalanced and removed and hopefully stays removed from future versions of the game

#8 - already exists, a new gamebreaking mechanic isn't needed

#9 - also already exists, the problem complained about is solved by moving to a lower difficulty, or stop expecting everything to be a cakewalk where the AI just help you win

#10 - necessary for balance, navies and ships have already had it rough in the series but unlimited movement is too abusable, and already being changed somewhat anyway
 
#5 is the one I can really get behind. It seems like no one remembers the trucks in Civ II that could carry food (and other stuff) from one city to the other. Made sense to me. Why should my capital be concerned with farms when there is stuff to build and money to be made? The outlying cities should produce the food. Much more realistic and interesting.
 
Make choppers more resilient, I'm tired of watching them get brought down by riflemen/pikemen. : /
 
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