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10 Facts About American Health Care: What do YOU think?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Bigfoot3814, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. Mountain-God

    Mountain-God Prince

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    The numbers smack of selective and manipulative reporting.

    The US system is commonly referred to as an example of what not to be - despite constant clamouring for change.

    New Zealand is currently undergoing a historical revision - where the new government reinvents the nation in a new and dire image in order to justify it's hard-on for privatising prisons, accident compensation, and health-care.

    Trouble is, they keep being caught making up numbers and even reports from the USA and International Monetary Fund poopoo their policies :p interesting times.

    Spend less on guns and more on education and health - that's my advice to Americans :)
     
  2. GinandTonic

    GinandTonic Saphire w/ Schweps + Lime

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    Prostate cancer is an interesting example. According to a Radio 4 special last weekend on if the UK should have prostate screening the evidence is iffy. Something like 97% of the positive results would not result in a fatility from prostate cancer. Therefore "survival" rates for nations with screening are wacked. Hell if you choose an old enough sample group most men will have (if you'll pardon the term) buggered prostates almost none of which will kill them, since they are in their 90's.

    So "survival" rates for prostate cancer are just about completely dependant on screening which in turn does almost nothing to actually extend life, while significantly reducing the quality if it.
     
  3. Kerozine

    Kerozine Deity

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    What kind of regulatory oversight is there in the US concerning health insurance claims? Or are they bound solely by the agreed contractual terms and you'd have to go to court to argue for it?

    I've watched the Sicko movie by Michael Moore, but never did fully trust the veracity of his reported claims about the US health care system, though anecdotes help very much in cementing this as unfortunate fact. :sad:
     
  4. emzie

    emzie wicked witch of the North

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    My personal experience of having lived in the US and Canada is that while the system here is strained, underfunded, understaffed amongst many other things, I wouldn't leave it for what I had in the US. My hospital might not have six-figure crystal sculpture in the entry or the latest and greatest colonoscopy cameras that make me feel like I'm walking on the beach, but it does have what I need to keep me and my wife and my family healthy. I don't have to skip a doctor's appointment because I can't pay for it. I don't have an extra step between triage nurse and doctor to hand over a host of financial details.
     
  5. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    I don't know about you, but the first thing I want to know about a website advocating a position is what other positions they advocate. And by looking at their topics of interest and their funding, their own POV and agenda usually becomes quite evident. You can call it an 'ad hominem' by not addressing the issues, but how many times do you have to debunk the same deliberate misrepresentation of the facts by the same group of people with the same obvious agenda before you detect a pattern?
     
  6. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    by Scott Atlas

    Medical care in the United States is derided as miserable compared to health care systems in the rest of the developed world. Economists, government officials, insurers and academics alike are beating the drum for a far larger government role in health care. Much of the public assumes their arguments are sound because the calls for change are so ubiquitous and the topic so complex. However, before turning to government as the solution, some unheralded facts about America's health care system should be considered.

    I have a question, if they prevent it most cases, so you are only left with the generally fatal versions, why does that count against them?

    again?

    If they cut down on it through diet doesn't this point lose relevancy?

    Fact No. 4: Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.[4] Take the proportion of the appropriate-age population groups who have received recommended tests for breast, cervical, prostate and colon cancer:

    isn't this mostly relevant to old people? and, what do they define as middle-aged?
    ?
    addressed by others
    addressed by others

    self reporting bias?

    see a specialist? almost all the time doctors in the US they refer you to a specialist simply because they don't have enough time...
    the other 30% have been to a hospital in the US lol...
     
  7. Perfection

    Perfection The Great Head.

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  8. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    Epic Perfection...
     
  9. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    As a Canadian, yes, we're dissatisfied. It's the nature of the way news works, we only hear about the bad things. As well, because we're covered, we complain about wait times. If we didn't have wait times, we'd complain about cost.

    So let's talk about cost. We spend way less on healthcare. Our government spends less. Our citizens pay way less.

    The Canadian system can absolutely be rehauled, too, since it was designed ~40 years ago. We've learned a lot since.
     
  10. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    Canadians have access to everything that Americans do, they just have to drive a couple hours to the US, and pay the same as Americans.

    On the other hand, Americans can't drive up to Canada and have our government pay for their healthcare.

    :p
     
  11. Luckmann

    Luckmann Esusian Epicure

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  12. Gigaz

    Gigaz civoholic

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    I wonder if anyone still believes in the "people are disappointed"-argument. :lol: Based on that, you can always find a majority for a smaller goverment, nationalized banks, cheaper health care, better health care, no war, action against terrorism, etc.
     
  13. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy CheeseBob

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    [sarcasm]
    Blasphemy! Don't you know all health statistics point towards the efficiency of the health care system and hospitals, and that personal lifestyle choices have nothing to do with that!
    [/sarcasm]

    Infant mortality for example, well gee, the US has triple the teenage pregnancy of many other countries, don't you think that might affect infant mortality a little bit? Fertility drugs increase the chances of twins, triplets, etc, and that increases the chances of complications. I haven't seen any compelling evidence that socialized medicine will reduce teenage pregnancy or convince couples that normally couldn't have children to not have them.

    Same can be said for stats that says the US does worse in some things than other countries. While the 'testing for everything possible' is often a waste of money, it helps when they do find something.
     
  14. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

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    Come to the Northern Territory of Australia, you will not find many people who if given the chance will not fly interstate for treatment, you go into the major hospital here and die from benign tumors.

    Australia and New Zealands hospital systems are hunks of crap, anyone who says otherwise is a fool. They are the result of the States ineptitude, the Federal Governments parsimony and ineptitude and all the fun of political machinations that goes with them. I reserve my up-most contempt for the Health Department here and in New Zealand.
     
  15. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    Prevention of poor lifestyle choices is completely relevant to the quality of health care.

    Except the "waste of money" point is completely relevant to the issue of health care costs when it doesn't particularly increase the quality of healthcare?
     
  16. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Lifestyle choices matter, but are typically not represented fairly in health care discussion. For example the statements that Americans are fat and lazy ignores that most nations with better health care results than the US also have higher, up to twice as much, smoking. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/hea_dai_smo-health-daily-smokers And a number of nations with superior health care results than the US have higher per capita alcohol consumption. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/foo_alc_con-food-alcohol-consumption-current Both of which impact life span and health costs similar to obesity. It also overlooks the fact that preventive health care could have an impact on obesity through properly educating people of the dangers.
     
  17. Bamspeedy

    Bamspeedy CheeseBob

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    So a hospital is going to convince someone to stop eating cheezy-poofs and get out and excercise if the government picks up the tab instead of an insurance agency?

    Yearly alcohol consumption isn't very accurate. There is a big difference between drinking 14 beers one night a week to drinking 2 beers a day (1 glass of wine a day is actually healthy for you).

    http://www.docguide.com/news/content.nsf/news/8525697700573E1885256D270055E2E3

    Am I wrong in thinking the average Frechman consumes a glass of wine with his meal much more often than the average American does?
     
  18. Masquerouge

    Masquerouge Deity

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  19. suiraclaw

    suiraclaw Hell is other people

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    I'd like to put a big emphasis on the fact that this article only details a very small part of the diseases around. Cancer is an important killer, but hospitals and doctors do a lot more then curing cancer and helping people with chronic diseases.

    Also adressing point 10: Yet there are several other countries with a good health care system that invest a bigger part of their GDP in medicine research (like Belgium IIRC). They also get good results and are just as cost efficient, but because of the huge difference in GDP it doesn't compare. So that argument is a bit flawed.

    Lastly, 2 other remarks:
    - The main difference between the healthcare system of the USA and the one used most often in Europe is the costprice. Medicines (and just almost everything related to healthcare) cost a whole lot more in the USA for example.
    - Cancer doesn't solely depend on the level of healthcare. Pollution, genes, habits, living circumstances and other factors have a big influence as well.
     
  20. Theige

    Theige American Baron

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    Spending per-capita statistics in regards to health-care are absolutely ********.

    The top 1% in America accounts for something like 22% of all health-care spending (not exactly sure on the numbers), skewing the statistics substantially.

    Also, take out all the darkies, and the health of our population that is truly comparable to European populations is definitely equal to, and probably surpasses that of our European brethren.

    Comparisons to individual European countries are dumb.
     

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