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10 Facts About American Health Care: What do YOU think?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Bigfoot3814, Mar 26, 2009.

  1. LucyDuke

    LucyDuke staring at the clock

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    That was a masterpiece of cherrypicking.

    Also, the problem, imo, in America, is where the dollars are going.

    Everyone should be getting regular screenings, especially those who are high-risk. It truly is a matter of life and death.

    Zero? Really? I call BS. Maybe if you specified which "other countries" you'd be on to something.
     
  2. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    What about scenarios which benefit from economies of scale?
     
  3. LucyDuke

    LucyDuke staring at the clock

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    Can you explain why?
     
  4. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    And yet it is a proven fact that at least 20 nations with all government health care have superior results for less money. How does your theory reconcile that?
     
  5. emzie

    emzie wicked witch of the North

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    We're hardwired to notice negativity more than positivity. It's our news, our memories, our social interactions. To try and judge another's health care system based on anecdotal accounts is bound to have a disproportionate amount of bad stories. A TV station here touched on that when it ran a commercial talking about "understanding the world" or something and contrasted the general feeling that health care is broken with that fact that our medical system still produces our happiest moments (child birth in this case).

    There's a lot to be fixed here, but to say there's nothing to learn in looking at other countries' healthcare systems is foolish. Think of it this way, you've sat on the bench watching others succeed and fail and now have a better idea how the game is played. Learn from our mistakes, learn from our failures, but don't pretend that we have nothing to offer.
     
  6. Bill3000

    Bill3000 OOOH NOOOOOOO! Supporter

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    The crap does income/donations/etc have anything to do with the effectiveness of healthcare?
     
  7. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    That's why I asked about economies of scale.
     
  8. Zelig

    Zelig Beep Boop

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    The graph Masquerouge posted on the last page takes taxes into account.

    Americans pay a similar amount in taxes for their healthcare as other countries, not counting what they spend on insurance.
     
  9. emzie

    emzie wicked witch of the North

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    Which is pretty sad :(
     
  10. Dida

    Dida YHWH

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    It is a common mistake among Americans to presume that a public entity is to be less efficient than a private entity engaging in the same affairs. In the existence of a free market economy this assumption may well be true, however, our healthcare system is anything but a free market economy.
    There are only a handful of "Big Pharma" companies making prescription drugs, and there are only a handful of public/private insurances that purchase these drugs. It is like the mortgage-backed securities market: a market under the pretense of free market economy but in fact is dominated by a few power players. This kind of arrangements results in distortion and abuse. For something as basic as healthcare, some government intervention is absolutely necessary.
     
  11. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Most of what you said I cannot understand as having any relevence to the discussion at hand. However,

    http://www.npr.org/news/specials/healthcare/healthcare_profiles.html

    Now right there you have 6 nations with living standards more or less as high as the US, all have national health care systems with universal coverage, or near to it. They all spend a hell of a lot less than we do, and they all have superior results.

    Do some research rather that relying on theory for everything. The world is not often interested in conforming to the theories people come up with. :rolleyes:
     
  12. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    That's correct. But a monopoly that forms due to the free market will not provide the most efficient outcome, even if can outcompete all competitors.

    So, I fully agree that a government cannot be as efficient as a private entity. But this is not true when there is a monopoly, or when a monopoly is the most efficient system for that service.
     
  13. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    None whatsoever.


    Yep if you can get that far. Most insurance coverage requires arbitration using their arbiters to help "minimize insurance expenses".

    I haven't seen it yet, but it's in my Netflix queue.
     
  14. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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    Post something to back the last assertion up then, please.
     
  15. BasketCase

    BasketCase Username sez it all

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    Fun post. Good read. And yes, surprising in several ways.

    However.....(hey, I'm BasketCase--it's inevitable that I'm gonna cause trouble somehow! :D ) I do see a problem in the article you quoted. Said article does the following a lot:

    The article makes it a habit to compare America to specific points elsewhere on the globe. This can be deceptive--the knucklehead who wrote the article can cherry-pick the nations being compared in order to arrive at pretty much any conclusion he or she wants. The above comparisons actually tell you nothing about how American health care stacks up in general.

    I've seen a number of articles here and there (some in CFC) pointing out how BAD American health care is--in the exact same way. By pointing out that Americans have a worse cancer survival rate than this country, or a worse incidence of AIDS than that country.

    My personal opinion is that American health care is pretty good. Probably not the best at any one thing, but when you're second-best at everything, you still come out on top because all the other nations in the world are #1 at something and #5,692 at everything else.
     
  16. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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    That's reasoning from general principles.

    What is there to indicate there's a massive sleight of hand going on in just about every OECD country in the world to hide the real costs of the public health care systems pretty much everyone but the US has built?

    It's not as if everyone else has completely opaque national budgets where you could hide a whale of a cost - which is what you are assuming.
     
  17. Verbose

    Verbose Deity

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    Again, please specify what you mean by "Marxist propaganda"? It really makes no sense to me.:confused:
     
  18. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    The problem here, is that you are starting with a premise "that since private healthcare is cheaper" which is proven to be false. Private health care is more expensive. Much more expensive. Your theories cannot change that real world fact.
     
  19. emzie

    emzie wicked witch of the North

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    It's pretty good, yes. But that's not the question. It's a matter of does the quality match the price and how accessible is that quality? Both of those answers, America does pretty poorly on. Everyone is getting screwed on the former front, and the latter screws the poor and middle class.
     
  20. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    No. That makes no sense whatsoever.
     

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