100k with a 5CC!!

Bamspeedy

CheeseBob
Joined
Dec 18, 2001
Messages
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Location
Amish Country, Wisconsin, USA
Yes, that's right 20,000 culture in 5 cities all at the same time.

Wasn't sure if there was enough culture buildings in the game for this to be even possible, so I did this on Chieftain level with what I felt were the easiest settings/map conditions.

Here is some comments about the game, if anyone wanted to try this on a harder level. (Warlord I think is certainly possible, Regent I think would be quite a challenge).

Huge pangea map for slow tech pace. Yes, this will make it harder for me with only 5 cities, but my main intent was to keep the AI slow in techs, so they can't cascade any wonders. On chieftain, I guess you wouldn't need to worry about this anyways (it takes them 800 shields to build the Pyramids vs. your 400 shields), but on higher levels you would. You want to get every Great Wonder. If you miss 1 or 2, then 5*20k may still be possible, but much, much harder. Another reason I chose huge map and pangea is described later on when I say why I chose the Americans.

I chose 16 AI, but this would be much easier with only 8 AI (for slower AI tech pace).
No expansionists AI civs. They take forever to meet each other without having scouts to use. Bad thing is then you get a whole bunch of scientific civs.

I used the Americans. Both of these traits give you a very powerful, early advantage if used correctly, and on the right map conditions. For a 5CC (or OCC), industrious is a much more short-lived advantage, as it doesn't take long to get all your limited terrain developed.

And now for why I chose expansionists?
Better goody hut results. Get a tech lead you will never lose on most levels.
Pop a settler early on (never pop a hut at 4000 BC, as you will never get a settler). Mass produce scouts until you can build another settler. I had my 'free' city build a scout, worker, scouts then a settler. For mass production of scouts, I actually prefer a non food bonus start. Starting with bonus grassland that can quickly be mined, or even better with game on forest can quickly get those scouts out. I had at least 10 scouts by 3000 B.C., and not too shortly after that I had ~20 scouts.
At the beginning of the game, set science to 0% and select Alphabet as the tech you are 'researching'. Goody huts give you what you are NOT researching (until there is no other choice). By blocking off Alphabet, the techs will bee-line you right towards monarchy. I got monarchy ~2590 BC in this game, which is a little slow compared to other games I have played. With only maybe 3 cities at this point, anarchy is very short (it was only 1 turn for me). You will no doubt trigger a golden age with all the ancient wonders you are building, so it is great if you aren't in despotism when that happens.

If you find other civs that have a tech you don't, then give them a tech for theirs, propelling you further along. But don't trade for alphabet, until after you pop Monarchy from a hut. Then trade for alphabet, then set 'research' to mathematics, so that huts will give you literature, map making, and techs up to and including Republic. When you get all the required techs in the ancient era (this was ~2000 BC in my game), start on Monotheism at 10%. Your empire will be small, so it will probably take 40 turns anyways, so you can save your money to rush culture buildings. After those 40 turns, you can turn science up higher if you want, as by that time your cities will be much bigger and you will have wonders like the collosus built.

I built temples and libraries before starting on wonders. All cities but the capital will need a culture expansion anyways, and the libraries offer more culture than some of the wonders, since they will be doubling in culture so much earlier and are cheaper to build. Every city had at least 1 worker improving the terrain. Being industrious allows you to keep up with terrain improvements as fast as you are growing. If you can get all the cultural improvements built before 10 AD, they will amount to about (or more) than half the culture you will need. By 10BC I had universities in every city but one.

I did have some small wonders I had to build to get enough culture, but then I didn't need any modern age wonders, and I did have to sell some temples, libraries in a few cities in order for me to get TOE, Hoovers and Wall Street. You won't be able to build the Pentagon or Forbidden palace with only 5 cities, but you can build battlefield medicine and wall street. Some of the small wonders only offer 1 or 2 culture points, so those are nice for getting those last few hundred points that a city will need. I could have triggered the victory a little sooner, but it was easier for me to do the math if I timed the victory for 2050 A.D.

Didn't really need any leaders. I did get a bunch later on in the game when I was conquering the world, but it's nice to get 1 to build an army to get the heroic epic. I built no military at all until after a city had nothing else left to build.
 
And here's a screenshot.

I did notice a bug with 'total culture value'. As you can see, the numbers don't add up quite right. I have 186 or so extra culture.

 
That was a nice trick! I can't even fathom the amount of calculations and micromanaging needed to make all five citys to produce 20k culture points at the exact same turn!

You have my respect, Bamspeedy! :)
 
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads4/Lincoln_of_the_Americans,_2049_AD.zip

Here's the 2049 AD save, so you can watch the replay.
Here's the list, since the save won't show when I built some of the culture buildings that I sold off. (and some I had to rebuild later on, to recover a few culture points from a miscalculation, or bug from the game, as my figures were usually 10 culture points off after selling a building).

Washington:
Palace: 4000 BC
Temple: 1550 BC
Library: 1250 BC
Great Wall: 610 BC
Colleseum: 570 BC
Cathedral: 450 BC
Hanging Gardens: 90 BC
University: 130 AD
Smiths Trading Co.: 760 AD
Heroic Epic: 910 AD
Battlefield medicine: 1575 AD
Hoover Dam: 1655 AD

New York: (founded 3150 BC-got the settler a few turns earlier, but was looking for a better place to settle)
Temple: 1750 BC
Library: 1550 BC
Pyramids: 530 BC
Cathedral: 450 BC
Colleseum: 290 BC
University: 10 BC
JS Bachs: 520 AD
Shakesphere's: 840 AD
Due to the awesome culture of these 2 wonders, I had to sell the temple much earlier than I did in other cities.

Boston: founded in 2710 BC
Temple: 1550 BC
Library: 1475 BC
Collosus: 1050 BC
Colleseum: 1000 BC
Great Lighthouse: 590 BC
Cathedral: 430 BC
University: 110 BC
Sun Tzu's: 330 AD
Magellan's Voyage: 570 AD
Military Academy: 1130 AD
Universal Suffrage: 1440 AD

Philadelphia: founded in 1990 BC
Temple: 1550 BC
Library: 1325 BC
Oracle: 630 BC
Colleseum: 590 BC
Cathedral: 430 BC
University: 310 BC
Sistine Chapel: 170 AD
Newton's University: 1305 AD
Wall Street: 1675 AD

Atlanta: founded in 1725 BC
Temple: 1550 BC
Library: 1275 BC
Great Library: 470 BC
Cathedral: 330 BC
Colleseum: 230 BC
University: 10 BC
Copernicus's: 410 AD
Leo's: 1030 AD
Theory of Evolution: 1630 AD
Cure for Cancer: 2049 AD

*Being in monarchy or republic allowed me to cash rush the culture buildings, and that is why many of them were completed at around the same time. (and having money from 0% science, and scouts popping huts for 50 gold gave me money).
 
Oh, I did have 1 extra city for 1-2 turns, but it had no effect on the game, really. I built a city on the island, rushed a harbor, then gifted it to the celts, so I could use their harbor (when at peace) to utitilize my colonies on that island. I didn't need the extra happiness, as my people were happy enough anyways, but I just like having all 8 luxuries.

And I did accept cities in peace treaties, but abandoned them the same turn (without selling any improvements they had).
 
Originally posted by Bamspeedy
Oh, I did have 1 extra city for 1-2 turns, but it had no effect on the game, really.
Ah, I knew there was a catch.;) I am seriously impressed by you players who set-up the endgame with multi-victory options on the final turn, the most impressive I've seein being Sir Pleb's Deity HoF leader. I just don't have the stomach for the math calculations, but very nice Bamspeedy!
 
Originally posted by Speaker

Ah, I knew there was a catch.;)

Well, it wouldn't have been necessary if Chieftain AI would actually build a harbor and be able to keep it!
I had traded with them for the luxuries for awhile, then suddenly they lost their harbor, and they hadn't been at war with anyone. I'm guessing they ran a defecit and had to sell the harbor. It was quite a ways past 1000 AD, and they still hadn't replaced their harbor :rolleyes: .

You have too much free time Bamspeedy!

Bored of crushing the AI with horsemen-knights-cavalry (or artillery stacks) is more like it.:king:
 
I did notice a bug with 'total culture value'. As you can see, the numbers don't add up quite right. I have 186 or so extra culture.

I solved this a while back. What happens is pretty weird: on the LAST turn of any anarchy period (the production phase at the end of which you get the select-government popup), you get the civ-wide culture credited to your national total but each city does not get its cultural production credited to its total.

What's even weirder is that the civ-wide culture is always credited at the beginning of the production phase, even before the per-city culture. The game looks ahead at the beginning of upkeep to decide whether to credit the national culture. (Programmatically, I'd guess it's anarchy_turns <= 1 rather than anarchy_turns < 1.)

[party] Whee, this was my 1,000th post on CivFanatics! [party]
 
Sir Pleb's Civ3 date/score calculator was a great help.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17550

Whenever I completed a culture building/wonder, I would figure out how many turns there are remaining from the time I complete the building until 2050 AD, and how many of those turns would be under the time frame of the building being 1000+ years old (for the double culture), then just did simple math.

So I kept a list of each city, and how much culture it will generate by 2050 AD, and so when a new wonder came available, I would build it usually in the city that was the farthest from achieving 20k. At one point, all of them were on pace to hit between 19000-19800, so then it was down to just adding the last few small wonders, etc. for those last few hundred points.

If a city was on pace to go well over 20k (like the JS bachs/Shakesphere city), then I just sold a temple off, at the appropriate time.

Even though I was doing calculations during the BC years, I would do some re-checking during various points of the game, because of lost culture during anarchy, and to check if I had any miscalculations, like from the doubling of culture.
 
Cool. Good Job!
 
To ask a simple question, I've never figured out how to sell improvements. How does one do this?

Thanks!
 
Originally posted by RowAndLive
To ask a simple question, I've never figured out how to sell improvements. How does one do this?

Thanks!

Right click on the improvement and you get the option to sell.
 
Yikes! I never have the time and effort to do stuff like this!! Good Job!!
 
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