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1208 AD : WAR with Germany

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Demo Game: Citizens' started by DaveShack, Jun 23, 2006.

  1. GeorgeOP

    GeorgeOP RF Bleachers

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    @Ice about the Maginot Line: I was just trying to be funny. Someone mentioned we build it, but it didn't do much in RL and we're facing the Germans. I know the Maginot Line actually worked since it forced the Germans to take the long way around to enter France. It's just that their defence outside the Line wasn't up to par.
     
  2. Vind2

    Vind2 Woof?

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    Well we're not French ;)
     
  3. ice2k4

    ice2k4 Emperor

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    I know, but our geograpghy and Europes political georgrapghy in 1942 are a lot different.

    Does Germany have open-borders with Russia?

    If not then they would be forced to try and break our line. Even if we bribe Russia into declaring war against Germany, the AI will most like use stacks of troops to hit Russian cities first, instead of going through Russian territory to nail us.
     
  4. Vind2

    Vind2 Woof?

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    Seeing as we are on top of Berlin there is a good chance they will go for us. Also Russia probaly has some offencive troops that will attack Germany.
     
  5. Oldbus

    Oldbus Chief of Confusion

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    I have updated the Secretary of War maps (to 1268 AD, TC 27/28 June) in the Great Atlas. I haven't had time to update the city screenshots and graphs etc.

    The new maps show the latest positions of all visible units and there are 'blank' versions (without unit positions and fog) to help people create dot maps and plans.
     
  6. Fetch

    Fetch When in doubt, reboot.

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    ... A fact I rejoce about every day.
     
  7. ice2k4

    ice2k4 Emperor

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    Couldn't agree more.
     
  8. Oldbus

    Oldbus Chief of Confusion

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    Here is a first attempt at a proposed war plan. Please note that it only covers the defensive phase of the war and that I've assumed that Bismarck will not accept a ceasefire. If he does accept a ceasefire then we can re-evaluate plans for building more attacking units.

    Apologies to Governors for being rather specific about building certain units in certain cities, but given the state of our roads and the speed with which I'd like to get this in place, it makes sense to ask for units to be built where required.

    Outline

    Please see:

    The basic plan is to continue to fortify Basillica.

    Defence Point 1 (in red, 2SE of Const Falls) is for a mix of defence and attack. It blocks the route between the lake and mountain and allows us to counter attack the Germans next to Basillica. I don't like those German troops being able to sit in the wood next to Basillica and be able to attack it without us replying. It will be expensive, but give n that they have some pretty handy promotions (incl City Raid III) and with more reinforcements likely, I think we need to aim to dislodge them. It will take most of the next TC to assemble the units we need.

    Defence point 2 (blue - 1N2E of Basillica) will again be a mix of defence and attack. It will provide reinforcement to Basillica if required, prevent Bismark attacking from the other side and provide an attack force when the time comes.

    Defence point 3 (white - 1E2S of Toot Uncommon) will have one archer. Can cover either Basillica or Toot Uncommon as required. This maybe a bit defensive, but allows us a unit to cover a more northerly German attack.


    Units

    Basillica:
    In 5 turns it will have:
    Horse archer x2
    Spearman
    Archer x4​
    Plus: would like to build crossbow, receive Axe from Abydos and receive sword from n. of Abydos

    Defensive point 1:
    Will have:
    Sword from 1W of CF
    Axe from CF (Will be replaced by archer)
    Axe from FI (will be repalced by archer)
    Crossbow from CF (will be built in 5)​

    Defensive point 2:
    Will have:
    Archer from AC
    Cat from OS​
    Would also like axe and crossbows.

    Defensive point 3:
    Will have Archer from Toot Uncommon (when built)


    Unit building

    These instructions only referto what I would like after the current build queues complete.

    Micalian's Gate: start Horse Archers. The advantage of building them here is that they move more quickly and are not hampered by the distance to the front.

    Toot Uncommon: build 1 archer for Point 3.

    Basillica: build 2 crossbows.

    Elsewhere (in order of priority):
    2 crossbow
    axe
    crossbow
    cat
    sword

    Then equal numbers of:
    cat, horse archer, crossbow and sword

    As I said, these units are required for this phase of the war. They provide some offensive capability, but if we start attacking sooner than I think, then we can change.


    Roads

    I realise that the order in which the road network is improved will depend upon where workers are etc., but I thought I'd post my priorities:
    Old Sarai to Basillica
    Abydos to Old Sarai
    Const Falls to Basillica (this should go north of the mountain - we should keep the defensive forest to the south for the moment)
    Toot Uncommon to Basillica​


    Please discuss... :)
     
  9. robboo

    robboo Deity

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    Olde bus..why not plant our defense 1 troops on the forest. We get the bonus and we deny them the defensive bonus. IF its going to be a problem..request a worker to come there with our troops and chop it.

    First thing I do in borders cities is chop the forest rigth around the city..especially those on hills.

    IN case Sigma misses the road priority you may link that post in his thread. I am sure they can accomadate you.

    Also DO you want peace if we can get it or would you rather do do all your preps during war time.?
     
  10. Sigma

    Sigma Censor

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    I saw it. ;) Basically the roads closest to the warfront are the highest priority. Unfortunately those are the most dangerous locations for our workers as they are susceptible to attack.

    I may need to requisition a few troops (if you can support it) to protect the workers when we are close to German territory. I plan on keeping workers in stacks though so it won't be that many troops, see the road-building thread for more detail. It would be pretty devastating to lose a stack of workers in one shot though. If I can't get any troops I may hold off on building roads next to Basillica until we get a cease fire.
     
  11. Oldbus

    Oldbus Chief of Confusion

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    Are you talking about the forest that the Germans are currently occupying? i.e. 1SW of Basillica. If so, then we've got to persuade them to leave first. ;) Apologies if that is not what you mean - can you let me know which forest you had in mind?

    I am going to have a think about what troops I can spare to cover the workers and when. (Possibly the troops for defense 2, but I need to examine stuff. I'll post my proper reply in the other thread).

    I'll go for peace if you can get it. If you look at the power graph, Bismarck is currently outrunning us on power (not only is he ahead quite a way, but he is getting further away each turn. This might alter once the effects of our economy change kick in). Hopefully Russia's part in the war may help to balance things a little, but I'm not expecting much.

    The only other way I can see to sort this is to aggressively pillage. However, there is the outside chance that Bismarck might relax his military output a little during a ceasefire to catch up a bit with things such as settlers or workers (putting us even further behind in our economy :( ). If we keep building military we may catch him and be in a position to take a city.

    If he keeps building military during the ceasefire then at least we're no worse off.
     
  12. Oldbus

    Oldbus Chief of Confusion

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    I've replied to Sigma in the Great Road Building thread and will provide an escort of an archer and an axe for the road builders.

    My plan is use an Archer from AC (which was due to go to DefPt 2) and the axe which will shortly complete in Abydos (which was due to go to Basillica - another axe will go instead from CF when the archer arrives in CF). This weakens the Defence Points a bit and makes an attack on Bismarck's troops in the wood more risky, but I think the road will be worthwhile.
     
  13. robboo

    robboo Deity

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    yep that was the forest...I just want to make sure we take it adn hold it..its critical to keep them from massing troops there that we cant kick out.

    I will put instructiosn ( as well as you shoudl) to stop if Bismark will talk. Then our censor can poll if we declare peace...

    if we get peace Sigma can hurry and get the roads done down near Germany first. We want the 10 turns cease fire...so that will give us teh time to fix teh roads...relativly safely.
     
  14. strike700

    strike700 Chieftain

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    If we can get Russia in and then pull out, Bismark might redirect his forces leaving his cities on our border vulnerable. Or at least there will be fewer reinforcements.
     
  15. Oldbus

    Oldbus Chief of Confusion

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    I haven't got time to post a detailed plan today, but having looked at the save and posted updated maps (see Great Atlas), here are some thoughts for the next TC. As always, comments welcome (especially if they come in time to help me develop a more detailed plan before the next TC starts).

    If we get a ceasefire: build as many cats, swords and crossbows as possible and start building up forces on our border near Berlin/Dortmund.

    However, as I think this is unlikely:
    move the defenders at Def Point 1 to the forest 1SW of Basillica to prevent German troops occupying it (I think it is worth losing some units to gain this tile). Use troops from Def1, Def2 and Basillica to assault German troops (I would not plan to use the archers in Basillica, only the more attacking troops). I think the choice of when/who to attack would need to be largely in the DP's hands so they could see what troops were injured etc.

    As the troops in Basillica seem to be doing well, use some of the Basillica reinforcements that are on their way, to form and Defensive Point north of Basillica to prevent further pillaging in that direction and to launch attacks against German troops.

    Build a mixture of swords, horse archers, crossbows and cats.
     
  16. robboo

    robboo Deity

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    Old Bus.. we need to gain some advantage here to force bismark to the table. I think we need to start attacking his troops agressiviely when they enter our territory. You can tell the DP to attack if the odds are greater than xx%( what ever you decide). That way they can attack weaken troops or juicy targets( horses with a spear)
     
  17. Oldbus

    Oldbus Chief of Confusion

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    I'd like to get a feeling from others about how risky you'd like to be with our troops. How lucky does George feel? ;)

    We could quite easily lose a lot of troops next TC if we have a lot of battles. How about a 70% chance? We already have a few potential battles greater than that?

    Maybe another way to look at it is to say what we consider to be a minimum defence, eg so many units in Basillica, so many units at certain defence points. If we clear the Germans off our territory and have more than these number of units left, maybe we should look to set up camp in Germany - the forest 2E1S of Basillica looks promising and would possibly allow us to start pillaging them for a change.

    One thing I've noticed is that we have a lot of cats building at the moment - once they are built (or possibly substitute in some of the closer cities) I think we need a couple of spears, some swords and crossbows. I'll ask the Governors.
     
  18. robboo

    robboo Deity

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    70% sounds good if there is units to follow up. I with you on the cats.
     
  19. dutchfire

    dutchfire Deity

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    My opinions on the war:

    1. builds: build crossbows now, then maces after cs is complete. Stop the cats at the moment, and start building them when the tide is definetly turning.
    2. odds: 60-65% is ok as long as there are backup-troops defending the city.
    3. war plan: I'd say, move some mixed stacks (1 spear+axes+swords) into German territory. The Germans will attack these well defended stacks instead of Basillica.
     
  20. robboo

    robboo Deity

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    Sounds good...

    Wish more people would chime in for you Dutch. We are in a war and its strangely quiet. You should take that as the citizens are satisfied I guess.
     

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