1492 - For God And Gold (planning phase)

thamis

King of Kish
Joined
Jan 21, 2002
Messages
1,583
Well, I guess you all can guess what this is going to be about: Colonization of the Americas. Yes, I know this is an old topic and I know that Jason has done the Colonization MOD, but it's not what I'm looking for because the Colonization feel is missing.

I'm the initial creator of TAM and have pretty much completed TAM now, the only thing missing in a C3C version. But I've thought about a new C3C-only project for a long time now. And Christmas is coming soon, which means... lots of time at hand!

Here's what I have thought about so far. First of all, I'll try to start with the basic concepts of Colonization and convert them to CIV3.

IMMIGRATION
Units cannot be produced, but settlers are created at regular intervals in Europe, and churches and cathedrals produce settlers as well, but at a much slower rate.

UNITS
The settler is the basic unit. Each unit has settler abilities. The next step is the pioneer (worker), then the soldier, and then the dragoon. Depending on technology, soldiers and dragoons can upgrade as well.
All ships and artillery can be produced normally, but require certain resources. I'm not sure if you can make units require a building in C3C, but if so, this would be great.

FATHERS OF INDEPENDENCE
These guys are small wonders. The most important guys also have a spaceship part (i.e. de Tocqueville would have Democracy in America as space ship part)

TECHNOLOGIES & CIVS
Here's a novelty: each civilization type has a completely different tech tree. This can be done using a non-era tech for each tech tree type, on which all the other techs are based. Tech trees are:
- Iberian (Spain, Portugal)
- Northern European (France, England, Holland)
- Tribal Indigenous (Cherokee, Sioux, Apache, Iroquois, Tupi, Arawkans, Inuit, etc.)
- Nation-State Indigenous (Aztec, Maya, Inca)

Righto. Sounds all really weird and a lot of balancing will be required, especially between the tech trees. Naturally, indigenous civs will have more primitive techs than Europeans do.

So, first of all I'd like to get some comments. And then, suggestions please! :-)
 
Technology Ideas
(more to come, this thread will be updated continuously)

Iberian European
Encomienda 1450
Mercury Silver Refining 1570
Treaty of Tordesillas 1494
Audiencia 1550
Carrera de Indias 1500
Hacienda 1600
Composición de Tierras 1600
Repartimiento Labour 1500
Consulado Merchants 1600
Congregación 1500
Asiento 1595
Bourbon Reforms 1720
Liberalism 1800
Treaty of Madrid 1750
Jesuit Expulsion 1767

Northern European
Protestantism 1520
Religious Freedom 1620
Parliament
Constitutional Monarchy
Enlightenment 1740
Liberalism 1750
American University 1640
Dual Mandate 1750
Manifest Destiny 1820

Tribal Indigenous

Nation-State Indigenous
Divinity
Ayllu Organization
Mita Labour
Huayra Mining
Caciques
 
Well, de Soto first came in contact with the Cherokee in 1540. This was the Cherokee's first encounter with whites. Two men from de Soto's expedition take note that the Cherokee people are of many colors from a range of very dark skin tone to a very fair skin tone.

The Cherokee capital would be Tugaloo (Tugalu) which is in modern day Northern Geogria. Tugaloo was supposively built in the 1450's and was destroyed by Americans in the American Revolution because of the Cherokee's alliance with the British.

Other cities which were probably around the time the explorers came were probably Echota and Unali.
 
Good idea :goodjob:

I'll see if I can get some info about the Iroquois (who I happen to think are really cool).
 
Nice civ list considering how many of them have 3D animated leaderheads.

Spain - Professional 3D animated era-specific leaderhead
Portugal - Professional 3D animated era-specific leaderhead
France - Professional 3D animated era-specific leaderhead
England - Professional 3D animated era-specific leaderhead
Holland - Professional 3D animated era-specific leaderhead
Aztec - Professional 3D animated era-specific leaderhead
Maya - Professional 3D animated era-specific leaderhead
Inca - Professional 3D animated era-specific leaderhead
Cherokee
Sioux
Apache
Iriquois - Professional 3D animated era-specific leaderhead
Tupi
Arawkans
Inuit - 3D animated era-specific leaderhead

That leaves only 5 you'd need to find leaderheads for. I'm sure that if this project get's far enough, someone like embryodead or sween32 would make a few more 1-era leaderheads for the Sioux or Cherokee.
 
Originally posted by Kal-el
I have been trying to get somebody to make a Sitting Bull leaderhead for the Sioux for forever.

imho the Sioux and Cherokee are the two Native American civs that need leaderheads, and either would be welcome additions.
 
OK, I've thought about this myself, but as my time is limited anyway, I'll put my thoughts in here:

-->DEFINITELY add the Araucans or Mapuche as a nation. They lived in southern Chile and Argentine and since ~1560 continuously destroyed all towns the Spanish built south of BioBio River. The Spanish - and later Chileans and Argentinians - fought a constant war against them ("Guerra de Arauco") which was not ended until those nations invaded with artillery and riflemen ~1880!!

--> My suggestions for indigenous tribes/civs:
North: Sioux, Cherokee, Iroquois, Pueblo/Hopi, Apache, Inuit
Central: Aztecs (C), Mayas (C), Aruak
South: Chibcha, Carib, Incas (C), Tupi, Guaraní, Mapuche

--> I had the same idea for immigration as you and would also have a good wonder for immigration: The "Casa de Contratación" or "House of Trade" in Seville was the center of Spanish colonial politics and where Spanish emigrants got their licence. That wonder could give colonists more frequently than ordinary emigration improvements. Maybe we could think of some wonder which represents the boost of English settlers in the 18th century too?

--> I don't know if you plan to take up the "treasure unit" consept from the Dicovery Conquest. At any rate: The whole Spanish economy (financing their huge wars in Europe) was based one one only wealth: The silver mines of Zacatecas and (more important) Potosí. Maybe we could introduce two silver resources: One ordinary and one more precious that only lies at those 2 historical locations. And then make an improvement or small wonder (Great Mines) that gives a treasure unit very often. There's already wonder graphics for the Mines of Potosí made by Ukas.

--> I don't know about the unit progression idea. My first concern is about the AI. I have severe doubts about the AI being able to get the concept. Secondly I don't think it's very civvish and limits a more refined palette of different units.
But units causing pop loss and being able to JOIN cities could be a good idea IMHO!
Improvements required for units isn't possible AFAIK - lamentably, otherwise we could have stables (require horses in city radius) to produce Dragoons.

--> I already apply for help on Founding Fathers and Tech Trees and improvement ideas.
 
Kal-El: Well, too bad for the AI! ;-)

Nahuixtelozin:

About tribes I'm absolutely open. I'm going to use my policy from TAM: if you want a tribe in and it's reasonable, supply me with the cities and leader information and the tribe is in! :-) I'll start out with those tribes that I either have or can find info, and those that I don't have anything on are welcome to join as soon as someone finds informaiton.

I'm not sure on whether to allow production in the home harbours or not yet. Surely for the Portuguese the Conselho Ultramarino would be in as wonder to boost trade, etc...

I thought of giving the nations the same advantages as in Colo:
English - Immigration (higher settler rate)
Spanish - Military (all units veteran + musketman prod. in Seville)
Dutch - Trade (automatic harbour in each city)
French - Diplomacy (well... how could we possibly do that??!)
Porgtuguese - Stability (Portuguese colonies were politically stable - extra happiness)

I was thinking of the Conquest treasure unit... I don't have Conquests yet (for some reason Amazon.co.uk doesn't ship it yet). I was thinking that maybe it is possible to get gold from sacrificing this unit in Europe?

I'm not sure about unit progression either, because its impossible to make a choice on how to update: military (musketman->dragoon) or civil (pioneer)...

Tech tree: Post any suggestions that you have right away. Again, I'm going to make four completely different tech trees, and I want to divide the tech tree into "paths" (political, economical, military, cultural) and each tech will be placed accordingly on a timeline (which will be the background of the tech screen). I really want to create a feeling of history here.
 
Excellent Mod ideas Thamis !

I'll look further on this one ;)


How about the Timeline, the Mod will begin in ???? and stop in ????

Could you be more specific what's your idea behind the French being Diplomatic ?
 
Tupi
Ok, Funai hasn't replied my mail yet... Anyway, I've posted to a Yahoogroup on the Tupi language if they had the info I needed... So, here's the result:

Cities:
Apiaká
Avá-canoeiro
Awareté
Cinta-larga
Comoiurã
Guajajara
Juruna
Kokama
Potiguara
Tamoio
Tembé
Tupinambá
Tupiniquim
Urubu kaapor

Leaders:
Cunhambebe
Nhaepepó-Ûaçu
Pindobuçu

And from Jason's Mod, we can use these villages:
Temimino
Tupina
Tabajara
Karirí
Waitacá
Aymoré
Goytacaz
 
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