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1512-1701 (An Odessy!)

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by Aeon221, Jan 17, 2005.

  1. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

    Apr 22, 2003
    Hiding from the Afro-Eurasians
    This scenario is targeted on the years 1512-1701. It will be inclusive of the entire earth, and will hopefully provide a replacement of the AoD scenario with something prettier, more accurate, and better designed.

    I intend to start with much of the work Rhye has done as my basis. His mod is here:

    Rhye's Original Mod Thread

    Rhye's Mod Thread II

    I DO NOT intend to ONLY use this, nor will I simply place a few cities and call it a day. This will be an actual scenario that hopefully someone else will one day play :rolleyes:

    ... maybe

    NOTE: While the PRIMARY focus WILL INDEED be on the Spanish Empire, I will BY NO MEANS leave out the various other nations (Russia, Persia, the Austro-Turkish Conflict, Sweden, the HRE, etc). This is intended to be a scenario of the WHOLE world, not just the Atlantic.


    1)Redesign Rhye's Map for Scenario
    -Elimination of some possible canals
    -Deletion of EVERYTHING not relevant to the time period

    2a) Decide on which Civs to use
    -City Lists
    -SGLs and GLs
    -Decide on encouragement resource(IE: Gold and Silver visible to all, Precious Metals only visible to Spain, required for some special Spanish Units/Wonders/Buildings)
    2b) Find art for leaderheads (hopefully dynamic, but if its not pre-made I will simply go with static... unless I find an angel ;p)
    2c) Decide what penalties/advantages they will recieve
    2d) Write Civilopedia entries for civs

    3a) Develop ideas for tech tree individualization for each civ
    3b) Find/Make art for Civilopedia
    3c) Write Civilopedia entries for techs

    4a) Develop ideas for individual wonders for each civ
    4b) Develop ideas for wonders for culture groups
    4c) Develop ideas for small wonders and unit creation buildings
    4d) Find/Make art for above
    4e) Write Civilopedia entries for above

    5a) Develop ideas for UUs and Unit upgrade paths
    5b) Find/Make art for above
    5c) Find/Make FLAVOR art where required
    5d) Duh...

    6) Decide whether to use pre-set alliances (Spanish-Austrians? England vs Spain?)

    7) Playtest, Balance, and Fix Mistakes!

    8) Credit List! (its gonna be MASSIVE!)

    9) Choose a goofy name ;p

    If you bothered to read all that, you have some serious issues... just like me ;p

    I will probably need help with some of the more esoteric stuff... as well as all the unit creation stuff. Anyone (new, experienced, EU2 player, just-plain-psycho ;p) is encouraged to join. I plege to stay the course and finish this thing... although whether I finish it before Civ4 is up for debate :rolleyes:

    GIDustin's Website... about as important as things can get!

    Locations of most of the Important Stuff:

    Basic Unit List

    Naval Unit List

    Basic Building List

    Effects of Tile Improvements

    Small Wonders, Resources, and Base Tile Values

    Part One of the Strategic Resource Uses

    Part Two of the Strategic Resource Uses

    Part One of the Leaderheads (Olorin)

    Part Two of the Leaderheads (Olorin)

    Get The MUnit Formations HERE!

    Ship animation listing

    Civ Leader and Trait listing:

    All civs have the religious trait.

    Hapsburg Dominions (In locked alliance): 3

    Spain (Carlos I): Mil/Sea
    Austria (Charles V): Mil/Agri
    Portugal (Joao IV): Sea/Com

    Western Europe: 4

    England (Elizabeth I): Sea/Com
    France (Francois I): Mil/Agri
    United Provinces (William of Orange): Agri/Sea
    Scotland (James VI): Mil/Agri

    Northern Europe: 4

    Russia (Ivan IV): Mil/Agri
    Denmark (Christian IV): Sea/Com
    Sweden (Gustavus Adolphus): Sea/Mil
    Poland (Jan III Sobieski): Agri/Mil

    HRE (In locked alliance): 4

    Saxony (Frederick the Wise): Mil/Ind
    Brandenburg (Friedrich-Wilhelm I): Mil/Ind
    Bavaria (Maximilian I): Mil/Ind
    The Palatinate (Frederick V): Mil/Ind

    Italy: 3

    Papal States (Pope Paul III): Agri/Com
    Venice (Alvise Mocenigo I): Com/Sea
    Genoa (Admiral Andrea Doria): Com/Sea

    Mid East: 4

    Ottoman Turks (Suleyman the Magnificant): Mil/Com
    Persia (Abbas the Great): Mil/Agri
    Barbary States (Moulay Ali Cherif): Mil/Sea
    Mamelukes (al-Ashraf Tuman Bay): Com/Mil

    East: 6

    Golden Horde (Devlet I Giray): Mil/Agri
    Japan (Tokugawa): Mil/Agri
    China (Zaihou): Agri/Com
    Mughal Empire (Akbar the Great): Mil/Agri
    Vijayanagara (Krishnadevaraya): Com/Agri
    Manchu (Nurhaci): Mil/Ind
    Ayutthaya: (Narai): Mil/Com

    NA: 0

    Woodland Tribes: appearing as barbarians

    SA: 2

    Central American Tribes (Montezuma): Mil/Agri
    South American Tribes (Atahualpa): Com/Agri

    Attached Items

    ***NOT PLAYABLE***
    .Biq Has:
    Final City Placement
    Final City Names
    Final North American Tribal Placement
    Resources (all strategic resources placed, many of the others placed as well)
    Lost all the buildings because I was dumb and not using Civ3MM to implement them :rolleyes:

    Rise and Fall folder with Resource .pcx file. Will allow you to view resource placement.

    If you want the full experience, go download Rhye's Terrain and put it in this folder!

    Attached Files:

  2. Hrafnkell

    Hrafnkell Alheithinn

    Oct 3, 2004
    The Beltway
    Sounds like a good idea, Aeon. I'm in the middle of putting together my Hellenistic Kingdoms right now so I can't offer any help, but I'll be looking forward to playing it, most certainly!
  3. GRM7584

    GRM7584 King

    Dec 13, 2004
    Orlando, FL
    There are too many mods and scenarios I want to help with or work on, but I wouldn't mind trying to contribute something; despite its flaws EU2 is probably one of the most involving and interesting games I've ever played. If I wasn't occupied with school and a dozen non-essential projects, I'd be more enthusiastic in my volunteering :p but I will at the VERY least be able to beta-test it into oblivion and back once thats ready.
  4. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

    Apr 22, 2003
    Hiding from the Afro-Eurasians
    Here are some shots from the editor so that you can see what it looks like without a long download... of course, now you have to wait for a long page load... so that sucks too ;p

    This is a shot of the Iberian peninsula and some of Italy too... you cannot see ALL the Spanish turf, but you can see a good chunk of it.

    This is a SPECTACULAR ;p shot of the Holy Roman Empire. It is linked together with a locked alliance, but expect it to be a battleground between several civs... those wheat resources provide a MIGHTY big draw, since you have to have access to at least one to be crowned Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire!

    This is a shot of India and Southeast Asia. Notice all the resources and the Portugese settlements. You can almost see Bombay, theres Goa, and off to the east you can see one more. Singapore is the other city (owned by Ayutthaya) that is cut off by the size of the picture.

    Major colonial hotbed for later on in the game! ;p
  5. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

    Apr 22, 2003
    Hiding from the Afro-Eurasians
    Map version 0.0000001 completed!

    Which means I went on a deleting frenzy, added a resource (Blood) as a double security against accidental worker job additions, and made sure that certain canals cannot be built (Suez, Panama).

    Am debating whether or not to cripple the Turks by splitting their empire in half (open Black Sea) or to simply leave things as they are in that regard. Its a pretty quiet debate... just me and the voices upstairs ;p
  6. LouLong

    LouLong In love with Rei Ayanami

    Nov 16, 2001
    Fontainebleau FRANCE
    lol !

    So you want to share in the fun of modding !
    Good luck to you !

    If you have something precise to ask, don't hesitate asking me. On the other hand I won't be much here as I am already working on lots of stuff...
  7. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

    Apr 5, 2004
    Northern Michigan
    I will offer the services of Research Q&A for city names / leader names / MGL's / SGL'S. Just post a request there with the civ's you plan to use and let us go to town them.
  8. FooFight2000

    FooFight2000 Chieftain

    Feb 27, 2004
    Well i'd be willing to help im a big EU2 player, and have enjoyed Rhye's project since the PTW days.

    As far as must have Civs, off the top of my head...
    German states and/or Prussia (German states could be forced to keep a feudalism type gov, until a set point.
    Papal States (could be in a locked alliance with all Catholic nations?)

    Muhgal and/or other mongols

    Iroqouis (maybe rename to another N. American Native American Tribe)

    Mameluks (Egypt)

    Another idea that i had that i was planning for a scenario like this is to sorta force Civs into correct governments via their own Tech Tree (like how religion is implemented in Rhye's) That way you do not have a Democratic Russia during this time period or a non-feudalistic Germany. This way of handling governments also allows you to slip added benefits and penalties to Civs. Only Russia will have a very high Draft rate (alot of people in russia + serfdom) because only Russia has access to the "Russian Monarchy" Government (maybe cap the Science rate a bit lower since russia was backward during this time).

    You could also provide alternative governments for civs, not just their historical ones. That way the player still gets an option. but its not as dramatic. A Russia without serfdom government that looses the draft bonus but does not have a harsh rate cap.

    Let me know what you think of all this

    I'd love to implement this type ogf government system in your scenario, nothing peaves me more than seeing everyone in Republic or Democracy. (whats the purpose of governments then?)
  9. Gunner

    Gunner Emperor

    Aug 21, 2004
    Goochland, VA
    Hey Aeon, I really love the idea. I would be willing to beta test any time pretty much. This really is my favorite time period from RoX and think a scenario for it would be great.
  10. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

    May 23, 2001
    Japan / South America
    good luck, aeon.
    So, If I'm not wrong, it holds most of the RoX stuff, right? (religions, 2nd UU, new units and tech tree)
    FooFight2000 has a good idea, see what you can do.

    By the way, I'm surprised that people still remember my stuff for PTW! :)
  11. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

    Apr 22, 2003
    Hiding from the Afro-Eurasians
    Good to see most of you again ;p

    @Rhye: Not specifically... I am keeping some of the unit graphics, and a few of the tech pictures, the naval movement setup (hard to improve on ;p), and your absolutely RIDICULOUSLY good map, but other than that I have a LOT of changes to the tech tree et al. that I want to mull over in here. If I find a free moment (been carving a chair leg into a katana... I hate being sick) I will start posting them.

    I want to set it up so that the EU2 events structure is included as a part of the tech tree, which means that things like, say, the Navigation Acts will be a tech that occurs after the English Civil War tech, (both of which would be unique to the English) but will require some kind of generic tech too, like Mercantilism.

    I am envisioning blocking off from 1/3 to 1/2 of the tech tree just for the hidden techs for each civ.

    Also have this thing with merchants I want to include, and using resources to shape civ development, and OMG Im ten minutes late for sports!!
  12. ThomAnder

    ThomAnder Deity

    Mar 26, 2004
    I'm interested in knowing if you'll cut out/fill with useless terrain certain areas on the map like they did in EU...
  13. Olorin0222

    Olorin0222 Maia

    Aug 2, 2004
    Flooded Missouri!!!
    I would also like to help out this mod as much as I can. I was starting a personal mod like this too, but hadn't got very far in it yet, just had selected LH's and worked on civs and map.

    From FooFighters civ list, I know right off the bat that there are no 3D animated LH of a pope, but we might be able to just a generic renaissance LH for the Papal States and call it "Captain-General Ceaser Borgia" or something.
  14. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

    Apr 22, 2003
    Hiding from the Afro-Eurasians
    Ok... I promise not to do anything else for long enough to explain some of my pet ideas:

    I noticed that the AI seems to go wacky over certain goods IF a powerful unit, a good building, and especially a wonder is linked to it. I intend to influence the game for both the human and the computer by making certain areas better for certain civs. This might not be 100% kosher with history, but it WILL hopefully cause the game to look right.

    To whit: Gold and Silver will be visible to everyone. Precious Metals will only be visible to Spain. They will be used to create a wonder (The Escorial), a unit (The Tercio), and an improvement (The Hacienda... or maybe the Encomienda System) that will A) Only be available next to the resource, and B) Produce a treasure unit X number of turns that can only be picked up by a Merchant Unit.

    The merchant will be fairly expensive for each civ (although some cities will randomly generate them, like Venice or Amsterdam), but the prices will vary on them. Same with settlers. I want them to be fairly cheap for small, far ranging settling civs like Portugal and the Dutch, but expensive for civs like Spain, whose territory mostly came from conquest.

    Most North and South American civs will be badly crippled <no settlers> I am sorry to say it to those who support the underdogs, but they will also have much weaker units in general, and will be totally unable to reach techs like gunpowder.

    Asian civs will also lack settlers, but city placement will be generous and their units will not be so far behind in strength. They will be able to reach gunpowder etc, but will be for the most part constrained to weaker units. I am more interested in historical accuracy than in making playable minor civs. They WILL be totally playable, with all the various events and goodies, but they will be weaker and they will be unable to achieve parity.

    I also intend to make resources like, say, cloth, visible to both Spain and France, and place them in the Netherlands and in Italy. Placement of such resources will of course be limited so as to increase value, and they will be required to build especially useful explorers and artillery units... both of which will become out of date as the game progresses.

    No ship will be able to safely end its turn in the ocean squares, although most will easily be able to wander through them. I am actually thinking of making it so that the Coast tiles are the most dangerous to leave a ship in... but that might be a bit harder to convince people of ;p

    Right now my biggest problem is not ideas ;p

    It is organization and implementation...

    Thanks for the civ list FF! It seems we mesh on most of them. If you do bother to read what I wrote in my megaplop here ;p you will notice the civ-specific event trees I intend to graft into the tech tree. You need not doubt that there will absolutely be multiple specially designed governments for each civ, with various incentives to switch to the newest one that appears. I too am a hater of seeing the same boring government across the boards ;p

    Just had an idea (SORRY!): each civ's governments will be based off the Dynasties. So, for England, it will be: Tudors, Stuarts, Cromwellian Dictatorship, Restoration, and ending with Constitutional Monarchy or something of that sort, with a nod to the English Bill of Rights (since W&M fail to establish a dynasty and just pass it along to the Hanovers).

    Ok, now I am going to have to stop brainstorming and start working!
  15. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

    Apr 22, 2003
    Hiding from the Afro-Eurasians
    @TA: I had not considered that before... but now that you mention it it might be a good idea... tundra-ing ireelevant sections of Africa and Asia would seriously cut down on AI wanderings. Australia too, now that I think of it. AGGH! Be needing more research! ;p

    @Olorin: GLAD TO HAVE YOU! I am not sure about how I intend to implement the Pope, Italy, and the HRE, but I will start torching that bridge in a bit. I do want to try and make it a bit messy with civs, like it really was, but that might mean some cuts from other areas.
  16. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

    Apr 22, 2003
    Hiding from the Afro-Eurasians
    @LL: Umm... can I play more of your scenarios ;p

    <list removed, see first post for up to date listing>

    I believe that puts me at 31... however, I count as well as a one armed badger, so feel free to reveal my idiocy ;p

    As is obvious, I want to focus the action on Europe, with expansion, trade, and WAR! Small European defenders will be fairly strong (so that they wont be easy to expand into if you are playing as one of the bigger nations...), and small European nations will also get some pretty heavy bonuses to their free troop count (since they will have jack sheeit in terms of cities). The major powers will recieve weaker defenders since they will be able to support a larger number... and since they can simply outproduce their smaller neighbors. This is not to say that the small powers will have all the advantages... they will just have a goodly number to compensate ;p

    The REAL powers will be the ones capable of defending themselves at home while still expanding overseas, because most of them will find it pret-ty costly once they overrun their free troop count. MOST civs will not be able to build settlers, and they will come at different parts of the tech tree. If I can find a way to make them unproduceable at times, I most certainly will... but I doubt it.

    Spain will have it the worst, no doubts, since it will want to expand everywhere but will not be capable of it.

    Now I can start worrying about leaderheads and city placement... which will mean some more map work ;p
  17. Mistfit

    Mistfit Deity

    Apr 5, 2004
    Northern Michigan
    Ottoman Turks
    Beyazid II (1481-1512)
    Yavuz Selim I (1512-20)
    Suleyman I (1520-66)
    Selim II (1566-74)
    Murad III (1574-95)
    Mehmet III (1595-1603)
    Ahmed I (1603-17)
    Mustafa I (1617-18 and 1622-23)
    Genc Osman II (1618-22)
    Murad IV (1623-40)
    Ibrahim (1640-48)
    Avci Mehmed IV (1648-87)
    Suleyman II (1687-91)
    Ahmed II (1691-95)
    Avci Mehmed V (1648-87)
    Suleyman III (1687-91)
    Ahmed II (1691-95)
    Mustafa II (1695-1703)

    The Hedjaz
    I wonder about this one because in the timeframe that you are referring to wasn't this area controlled by the Ottoman's? The only time the Hejaz (spelling differs dependant upon where you look up the word :D ) enjoyed a period of political independence was in the early 20th century. Could you be more specific at to which contries you want this to cover

    Safavid dynasty, 1502-1736
    Ismail I (1502-1524)
    Tahmasp I (1524-1576)
    Ismail II (1576-1578)
    Mohammad I (1578-1587)
    Abbas I the Great (1587-1629)
    Safi (1629-1642)
    Abbas II (1642-1667)
    Suleiman I (Safi II) (1667-1694)
    Sultan Hussein (1694-1722)
    Tahmasp II (1723-1732)

    The Mamelukes
    Sultan Ashraf Qansuh Ghori (1501-1516)
    In 1516 I believe that The Turks took over the Mamelukes and started their rule over Egypt at this point so again I think their rule at this time was primarily over.
    Sultan Tumanbay II (1517)
  18. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

    Apr 22, 2003
    Hiding from the Afro-Eurasians
    Thanks Misfit! That will be a massive help!

    You are correct on both accounts, but I do not want to start with the Turks so bored. I will probably move the start date back a few years to allow this to occur.

    I admit that I am almost completely in the dark about this area (barring a few Eurocentric facts... kinda pathetic really), but I will try and find a more representative country.

    Now that I look at my list again, I realize that I totally forgot the Golden Horde... this is a problem.

    EDIT: I cannot find a stable African nation. One of the Sahelian Kingdoms would be my first choice, but all seem too short lived and fragmented to be seriously considered.

    I think I will move the spot from SSA to Asia and give it to the Golden Horde.

    Bah! Oh well, thats annoying to have to do, but thats life.
  19. Aeon221

    Aeon221 Lord of the Cheese Helmet

    Apr 22, 2003
    Hiding from the Afro-Eurasians
    I had to change a few civs around (glad I decided to do this part before art hunting) ;p

    Milan had to go... but that makes Spain stronger!

    Mamelukes went (no way to have them and Milan)

    Hanovers went too... probably no room for them anyway.

    Scotland added (Act of Union aint for a long ways yet ;p)

    Golden Horde added

    Removed Hedjaz

    Added Saxony (what was I THINKING before!!!)

    Austria and Spain are weird. Putting them in an alliance makes them strong, but not ridiculously unfairly so, as would making them one country.

    Not sure how accurate it is considering, but it seems ok off the top of my head.

    I might just forget trying to add an independent power in the Saudi Arabian peninsula, since I am not liking any of the options. Actually, that works out well!
  20. GRM7584

    GRM7584 King

    Dec 13, 2004
    Orlando, FL
    I think you should leave the Black Sea open. I think the Turks will be plenty strong even without that little hitch. A good argument against would be that a human player will just plug the hole with ships anyway and its unfair for the AI, and I could see it going that way too. Too bad we can't have SMAC style connecters that both land and sea units can cross through.

    Thats good for Scotland, but what about Wales? In civ terms I guess its completely "English", but 'their' act of union is in 1536 if I remember right. If you have a spare improvement/wonder spot, you might be able to implement SOMETHING to represent it (IE welsh act of union, only buildable in cardiff from the start of the game, makes happy faces, something like that)

    And, furthermore, (how) do you plan to represent the practice of slavery? In EU2 it was done with a resource placed in areas where slaves were historically sold, which could certainly work well for civ.

    I really don't think there are any reasonable Sub-Saharan Africa civs either. Going back to EU2, most of the civs used there were filler for the map, rather than actual impediments to foreign colonization.

    Everything so far looks good, but I do not envy you for getting to implement all this, Aeon :p

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