1512-1701 (An Odessy!)

[Olorin0222]

Japanese Timeline, from various Wikipedia articles

Spoiler :

1542 – Portuguese make contact with Japan.

1549 – St. Francis Xavier lands in Japan and starts to convert Japanese.

1575 – Battle of Nagashino, won primarily because of the use of muskets, begins to secure the position of Tokugawa Ieyasu.

1600 – After the decisive Battle of Sekigahara, Tokugawa becomes the defacto ruler of Japan.

1603 – Tokugawa receives the title shogun beginning the Tokugawa Shogunate.

1612 – The shogun's retainers and residents of Tokugawa lands had been ordered to foreswear Christianity. The "Christian problem" was, in effect, a problem controlling both the Christian daimyo in Kyushu and trade with the Europeans.

1616 – The restriction of foreign trade to Nagasaki and Hirado, an island northwest of Kyushu.

1622 – The execution of 120 missionaries and converts.

1624 – The expulsion of the Spanish.

1629 – The execution of thousands of Christians.

1635 – An edict is pronounced prohibiting any Japanese from traveling outside Japan or, if someone left, from ever returning.

1636 – The Portuguese were restricted to Dejima, a small artificial island — and thus, not true Japanese soil — in Nagasaki's harbor.

1637-38 – The Shimabara Rebellion, in which discontented Christian samurai and peasants rebelled against the bakufu — and Edo called in Dutch ships to bombard the rebel stronghold — marking the end of the Christian movement, although some Christians survived by going underground. Soon thereafter, the Portuguese were permanently expelled, members of the Portuguese diplomatic mission were executed, all subjects were ordered to register at a Buddhist or Shinto temple, and the Dutch and Chinese were restricted, respectively, to Dejima and to a special quarter in Nagasaki. Besides small trade of some outer daimyo with Korea and the Ryukyu Islands, to the southwest of Japan's main islands, by 1641 foreign contacts were limited by the policy of sakoku to Nagasaki.

 

[Olorin0222]

ok, I'll try and come up with some more culture based items also...I'll tell you when I edit in stuff for timelines I've already posted.

 

[Olorin0222]

Most of the other timelines are fine, but I am really looking for some more culturally based stuff. Since the war stuff is all subjective, its really not very important tech-wise ;p

Which timelines do you want me to spruce up a bit, since only "most" of them are fine? Just name them and I'll do them, no problem, no complaints.


P.S. I did edit in some cultural info in the Chinese timeline.

 

[Olorin0222]

Ayutthaya Timeline: from lots of sources (had to piece this one together)

Spoiler :

1516 - Portuguese envoy to Thai Court.

1529-1569 - Ayutthaya became involved continual war with Burma, with the result that Ayutthaya fell to the Burmese.

1534 - The King of Siam (Ayutthaya) died of smallpox.

1548 - In Thailand King Chakrapat was saved by his wife Suriyothai, who maneuvered her elephant in front of the invading Burmese King Tabinshweeti and took the sword thrust intended for her husband. The historical film “Suriyothai” was directed by Chatri Chalerm Yukol and premiered in August, 2001. It was about the 16th Queen Suriyothai who saved her husband King Thianracha during a war with invaders from Myanmar.

1571 - The Spaniards had made Manila as their Far Eastern capital in 1571. Spain spread out to economically dominate & christianize the neighboring countries. The European colonial imperialists were busily dividing Asia.

1584 - Thai King declares independence from Burma & suppresses several attacks from Burma.

1593 - After the Burmese made several unsuccessful attempts to reclaim Ayutthaya a resolution was determined by a duel on elephants in which Naresuan slew the Burmese Crown Prince at Nong Sa Rai near Suphan Buri in January, 1593.

1594 - Naresuan was victorious in a war with Cambodia.

1598 - Spain signed a treaty of friendship and commerce with Siam. This was the second treaty which Siam made with a European country. The terms of the treaty were similar to those in the Portuguese treaty of 1516.

1601-1605 - In 1601 the Dutch received permission to build a trading station in southern Thailand. Three years later, in 1604, they proceeded to Ayutthaya where their arrival was marked by an audience which King Naresuan granted to their chief negotiator.

1607 - First Thai Ambassador to Europe, the Netherlands. 7 month ocean voyage.

1611 - British factory established in Thailand.

1617 - First treaty with the Netherlands. No exclusive trading privileges.

1610-1628 - Both Kong Ekatotsarot and King Songtham exchanged ambassadors with Japan, the Shogun of Tokugawa.

1627 - Alexandre de Rhodes, a French Jesuit, creates a script known as quoc ngu in order to use the Roman alphabet in writing the Vietnamese language.

1661-1664 - The Dutch adopted a war like policy towards the Thais. In typical imperialist fashion, they were not satisfied with the fair trade treaties they negotiated, in good faith, with King Naresuan. First they pirated a Thai merchant vessel, then some Dutch warships blockaded the mouth of the Chao Praya river, thus forcing Siam to sign another treaty, whereby the Dutch obtained a monopoly on the export of deer and cow hides.

1662-1687 - The French appeared on the scene of Thai history in the reign of King Narai (1657-1688). Siam and France exchanged embassies. In 1685, Louis XIV dispatched Chevalier de Chaumont as the first French ambassador to Ayutthaya, to be followed b y a second ambassador accompanied by 1400 French soldiers and 300 skilled workmen in 1687.

1673 - A French mission brings letters from Pope Clement IX and King Louis XIV to Thailand. The Ayudhya court responds in 1684 with a request for political alliance, but the French are primarily interested in gaining converts to Christianity.

1687 - King Narai declared war against the British East India Company. The British goal of using the Indian opium in Thailand like the British did in China was unacceptable.

1688 - King Narai turned to the French in order to counterbalance the Dutch. He succeeded in signing a new treaty with the Dutch that contained the same terms as those found in the treaty of 1617. He then expelled the French soldiers from the country, after the Dutch renegotiated.

 

[Aeon221]

Ottoman and Spanish lack much/anything in the way of culture. Everything else is absolutely excellent!

Guess I should have mentioned that the techs would be cultural before, but I only just thought that part through. The formations have kinda been occupying me more than they should.

Thanks so much!

 

[Olorin0222]

edited in cultural info on the Ottomans

Edited in cultural info on Spanish

 

[Aeon221]

Questions!

Should Spain start the game in a locked war against Central and South?

Should they start with 'boots on the ground' or should they have to transport them from somewhere?

I am reasonably certain that cultural achievements are the best to replace the tech tree. What do you think about using dynasties (like the Stuarts etc) in place of generic governments?

Unit HPs: I have the current setup as 2.3.5.6, with the barracks only available after several other buildings have been produced (at least two) is this a good plan? Should I up all the HPs by one point (or more) so as to make the combats less likely to produce unusual results (reduce statistical anomalies by increasing the sample pool)?

What should the base HP of ships be? I was thinking that I should add at least 2HP to all ships on the base model to start with, and then further manipulating from there.

More thoughts later.

Biq news: I finished putting entries (not the real ones, just c&p) for the various resources into the civlopedia. I also added all the visuals for the resources. Not sure about placement yet, considering how cramped some parts of the world are, resource wise. I think I will probably have to cut back on some of the strategic ones in order to fit more of the other ones. Still, I really dont have the time to go through everywhere systematically ATM, so I have no clue right yet.

Its gonna be a slap happy job till its playable anyway.

Settlers: autoproduce at different rates for each of the colonials (from the palace) or simply give them ones with variable costs? I like the autoproduce because it prevents the ai from doing stupid stuff (like wasting too much time trying to produce the settlers), but I also like the ability to offer a wider range of settler choices and affect things that way.

Maybe each civ will have preplaced settler producing buildings along their coastline which will pump them out at variable rates... and then I could make them go obsolete, or offer the ability to build new ones that require them to be coastal and in the same city... there are all kinds of options ;p

Anyway, I want to get some input on a few of my less solid areas, so I hope some people get interested ;p

 

[Three_Crowns]

What do you think about using dynasties (like the Stuarts etc) in place of generic governments?

You mentioned something about giving each civ its own unique set of governments, which I think is a good idea, but would that not mean that preferred/shunned governments only will have effect on a one-civ-to-one-civ basis? (Of course, this can be used to engineer specific war scenarioes).

 

[Aeon221]

I figured it doesnt do too much anyway (shunned govts) but yeah that would work nicely

AFAIK it only makes them slightly dislike one another, so its not really important.... BUT I do like the idea and I WILL include it

Who knows... it could even be a boat! You know how much we always wanted one of those Lois!

 

[Three_Crowns]

Who knows... it could even be a boat! You know how much we always wanted one of those Lois!

"Then why don't you just get the..."

 

[Aeon221]

Haha greatest show ever~! ...well, besides Invader Zim and Beavis and Butthead... may they rest in peace

<Moment of Silence>






On to the real news!

Updated biq, AND I also posted the VERY minimal folder that allows you to view the resources. I did not check to see if it worked, but I have faith ;p

If you dont want crummy terrain, go download Rhye's and stick it in there.

Or, alternatively, go download Rhye's mod, copy the terrain, and stick that in there. That will work better for you because then you will be able to play his mod too! ;p


...not sure if his terrain comes with the Plateau graphics, but it might.

There may have been some significant changes in the biq. I am also going to post some screenshots to spur a bit more interest in the scenario, and end the interest in my erratic side comments ;p

 

[Three_Crowns]

Updated biq, AND I also posted the VERY minimal folder that allows you to view the resources. I did not check to see if it worked, but I have faith ;p

It works. Christians, our precious natural resource!*

*Store dry - out of direct sunlight - please recycle.

Edit: Of course, we all have RoCX so you can just add "Rhye's of Civilization" to the "Scenario Search Folders" string. No need to have multiple copies of the terrain graphics.

Edit2: Just saw the slaves. It look like they are hailing a cab.

 

[Aeon221]

Hahaha!

They are only a resource for the Turks and the Barbary States ;p

Glad you think they are goofy looking haha.

As to edit1: Causus Belli compiled them a looooong time ago. It was easier to just use his work than to forum surf for hours.

EDIT of my own: I posted some screenshots on the first page. Go look! They're PRETTTY! ;p

 

[Three_Crowns]

As to edit1: Causus Belli compiled them a looooong time ago. It was easier to just use his work than to forum surf for hours.

I think you misunderstand, I meant that people did not have to copy Rhye's terrain if they already have RoC/X - you can just add RoC to the search path in your biq.

Questions!

Answers!

Should Spain start the game in a locked war against Central and South?

Yes - if you have room for it, since you can only have four alliance blocks.

Should they start with 'boots on the ground' or should they have to transport them from somewhere?

on ground would be the easiest, but it would probably result in the Spanish immiediatly conquering alot of the Americas everytime. Which is great, historically - but monotone in regards to gameplay. With troops on ships the outcome will vary, depending on how odd the ai is - unless the ai is the same amount of odd all the time.

I am reasonably certain that cultural achievements are the best to replace the tech tree. What do you think about using dynasties (like the Stuarts etc) in place of generic governments?

I like it! But it might prove difficult to implement for every civ.

Unit HPs: I have the current setup as 2.3.5.6, with the barracks only available after several other buildings have been produced (at least two) is this a good plan? Should I up all the HPs by one point (or more) so as to make the combats less likely to produce unusual results (reduce statistical anomalies by increasing the sample pool)?

Not sure if this will be necessary, considering the constricted timeline and lack of technological advances in this scenario. No tanks versus spearman.

What should the base HP of ships be? I was thinking that I should add at least 2HP to all ships on the base model to start with, and then further manipulating from there.

Considering the many different types of ships, some of them (like SoL) should definitely have more HP's.

More thoughts later.

They come in discrete time intervals?

Settlers: autoproduce at different rates for each of the colonials (from the palace) or simply give them ones with variable costs? I like the autoproduce because it prevents the ai from doing stupid stuff (like wasting too much time trying to produce the settlers), but I also like the ability to offer a wider range of settler choices and affect things that way.

It would be fun to see how the ai would cope with autoproducing. I like Rhye's heavy production costs because it slows down everything, but an unfortunate side effect is that the ai is too stupid to realise when there is no more land to settle, and it will hurt it self by not building anything useful in many, many turns. Just make sure they only produce as many settlers, as you want colonies - so the world does not get flooded by settlers.

Anyway, I want to get some input on a few of my less solid areas, so I hope some people get interested ;p

Well, it is almost 6 am here. I have been up for around 22 hours and I can not go to sleep for another 7 hours. I am helping my girlfriend finish her master thesis - it is due in four hours

Edit: It has been up in a month now and it is already more than a quarter of its allowed length - you are going to have to close this thread soon

 

[Aeon221]

Nah, I just gotta talk less ;p

They come in discrete time intervals?

... not gonna say why ;p

Hokay, started work on governments:

Spain is only getting one (House of Hapsburg). It will be an excellent war gov't, but will slowly fall behind the rest of the world in tech.

England is getting four, each of which is slightly different (Tudor, Stuart, Protectorate of Cromwell, William and Mary). PoC is the best war gov't for England, and W&M is an excellent tech govt. Stuart and Tudor are lesser versions of these two (Republic an Mon => Democ and Facism).

This way England is constantly undergoing changes of govt, while relatively stable Spain (which did not historically undergo a major dynastic change until...1701... hmm) never does.

I am thinking that Austrian and Portugal are going to basically have the same gov't as Spain, so I might need to tweak it... but thats for later.

France is getting Valois => Bourbon => Sun King

Valois is going to be a crummy govt, kinda like despotism. It will probably generate some discontent or something so that you get plenty of rioting. Bourbon is going to be capable of building both the Protestant and the Catholic small wonder. It wont be so hot either, but it will be better. Sun King is going to be mega facism, and will also lose the Protestant small wonder. When France gets that, they are going to go ballistic on the world... mwahaha ;p

Russia will have the Rurik dynasty, which will be a disgustingly good war govt at first... but then the creeping corruption will render it useless because it will be VERY corrupt. The Romanovs will be less powerful warriors, but far better at combating corruption (2 levels at least), hopefully spurring another mass expansion.

Not sure how to represent the time of troubles. No one (AI or Human) would bother to make it their govt, so I will just make it a tech required for this govt that also kills some Russian happiness wonder.

Papal States are going to have the Papacy, which will be very stable, corrupt, and capable of maintaining a decent military. No switches for them.

Venice with its Doges. Less corrupt, trade bonus, less military, higher rate cap.

Rate caps are varying pretty significantly. Some civs will get hardcore research skills, while others will not. Since libraries and universities are going to be more expensive (both to produce and to upkeep) and harder to build (library requires buildings too), its going to matter a lot more. Cultural expansion stuff is limited too, although I will probably have to change that in consideration of AI idiocy... stupid buggers wont build roads outside of their turf.

Hokay, have to go do school student stuff haha


PS: Have fun with her theses ;p

 

[Aeon221]

I think I agree with you about the monotonous nature of having the troops already deployed, but I do want to pre-place the Spanish with very few Euro troops and very many native troops (like in real life).

I figured a musket company, 2 pike companies, (Musket companies will be in the first available tech, so its not too odd... formations will be much further along), 4 Spear/Archer formations (non-upgradeable), 4 spears, and 4 archers (both upgradeable).

That way its clear who won the war for who.

The problem with already at war for them is that I cannot lock the Turks and Mamelukes into a war, and I am worried that the Turks might not 'do their duty' ;p

Crap im late gotta run haha

 

[V. Soma]

Hi!

I have my eyes on this project...

Seen the pics on the first page, a small correction:
Budapest
is not correct, as there was no such city until 1873.
Either be it Buda or Pest,
the first on the west, the second on the east side of the Danube...

 

[Aeon221]

Thanks for checking it out Soma ;p

I know I know!

But I didnt know whether its best to do either or or both.

I guess changing it to Buda does make sense. It really bugs me that I have no Hungary, but... well... I dont have a Milan either... stupid civ limit.

 

[Aeon221]

PS: If nobody noticed, I added a screenie of India too! Its even got chunks of SE-Asia ;p

Gotta do some stuff an study, but I want to start on the German dynasties next.

 

[Olorin0222]

Austria should have pretty much the same gov as Spain, but you could maybe tweek and give Portugal a better commercial aspect and lower their ability to fight.

An idea for the Dutch: (I know you probably have already thought about this...) You could give them two govs, one for the Eighty Years war, one for after Spain acknowledges Dutch Independence. The first could be a little less tech, more war-centered, while the latter could be commercial and techie.

I'm at school now and need to be going to class, I'll try and get some more Timelines done tonight.