(19) Proposal: Urban Planning (Progress) Settler Production Bonus

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Urzamax

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The Progress tree is supposed to be the Peaceful Wide option (more or less), which means that you're going to want to be making Settlers. Unfortunately, both Tradition and Authority are actually better at that specific task under most circumstances, at least in the early game (Tradition because the stronger capital with greater food generation means that the Pop loss is usually easier to recover from and it has more pops to work productive tiles, while Authority gets a higher overall level of production from its per-Policy bonus than Liberty offers, occasional productive bursts from border expansion, and of course it has the free settler at Imperium).

As such, I'm proposing that the +25%Worker and Trade Unit production bonus from Urban Planning be extended to Settlers as well, in order to ensure that Progress is able to keep up with its counterparts in this crucial stage of the game.
 

Zanteogo

King
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I don't know about this. Progress is probably the most powerful of all the starting policies as it is. Not by a massive amount, but adding more to it will tip it over the edge.

I think if we were to do this, we would have to take something from it as well. +25% settler production is massive.

I would also suggest maybe replacing the free settler Authority gives with something else. I always thought that it went against the idea of that tree.
 

ma_kuh

Prince
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Progress gets a very early +3:c5production: to all cities on the same policy that lets you start improving terrain immediately, which is way more than 25% at the time it shows up, and applies to all city activities. Authority only catches up on the 3rd policy, and depending on barbarians and early wars that can take awhile.

Authority's free settler seems like a purely balancing mechanism: it allows authority to get a crucial second city up and running while ignoring Pottery in favor of military techs. I don't know that it makes sense or is very flavorful, but it seems pretty key to the policy tree being viable. You'd have to move the settler unlock to change it.
 

rkkn

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Progress gets a very early +3:c5production: to all cities on the same policy that lets you start improving terrain immediately, which is way more than 25% at the time it shows up, and applies to all city activities.
confused by what you mean here. the one that "lets you start improving terrain immediately" I would assume to mean the one that gives you the instant worker, which is the +3 gold one. Also for +3 to be more than 25%, you'd need 11 settler production or less, which means 11 turn settlers before the policy. I've only ever got that in the capital if my land is incredibly awful, since food also adds to production. It's usually more like 15 production before the policy, for 8 or 9 turn settlers, that drops to 6 or 7 with policy.
 

rkkn

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Authority's free settler seems like a purely balancing mechanism: it allows authority to get a crucial second city up and running while ignoring Pottery in favor of military techs.
I doubt this is the case. You need 3 policies to get to this settler, which is way later than you want to have a second city. This free settler is usually my 4th city.
 

Zanteogo

King
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Progress gets a very early +3:c5production: to all cities on the same policy that lets you start improving terrain immediately, which is way more than 25% at the time it shows up, and applies to all city activities. Authority only catches up on the 3rd policy, and depending on barbarians and early wars that can take awhile.

Authority's free settler seems like a purely balancing mechanism: it allows authority to get a crucial second city up and running while ignoring Pottery in favor of military techs. I don't know that it makes sense or is very flavorful, but it seems pretty key to the policy tree being viable. You'd have to move the settler unlock to change it.

There are probably things we could add that would balance the tree rather than giving a free settler, that feels out of place for a combat tree.

It's also a problem because it makes mixing of tree's less appealing, if you don't take it early, by the time you get the settler the land rush is over.
 

Stalker0

Baller Magnus
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I don’t agree that progress really needs this. It’s true that tradition can settle a bit faster, but progress kicks back in when it’s secondary cities start making settlers too.

I do think this is the right way to change progress if you want to go that route, the location and benefit makes sense to me, but I don’t feel it’s really needed.

Also remember the +3 food policy also speeds up settler production, as food and hammers both contribute
 

ma_kuh

Prince
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Sep 13, 2022
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Did I get them mixed up? I could have sworn the production was on the worker... I'll attribute it to Progress always getting its second policy so quickly after taking the opener. :D

Not to derail the thread too much, but I guess my point with the authority settler is that the free settler it gives you and yields on settling, is either wasted by the time it's your 4th city, or helps keep rushy styles relevant by giving you an out while rushing military.
 

Recursive

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(Sponsors have indicated that they are able and willing to perform the code changes required for this proposal if the community votes Aye on it. Other coders are free to sponsor this as well. A proposal without a sponsor will not advance to the Voting Phase.)
 
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