19 Unused Trait Combinations

[Nilmerf]

Imperialistic/Spiritual - Constantine the Great, Roman Empire. The first Christian (Spi) Emperor (Imp). Favourite Civic: Free Religion.
Charismatic/Creative - Pericles, Greek Empire. An excellent orator (Cha), promoted the arts and culture of Athens (Cre). Favourite Civic: Representation.
Expansive/Financial - El Cid, Spanish Empire. Took countless Moorish cities (Exp), and made himself, his lord (Alfonso VI), and all of his vassals extremely rich (Fin). Favourite Civic: Vassalage.

 

[kristopherb]

Imperialistic/Spiritual - Constantine the Great, Roman Empire. The first Christian (Spi) Emperor (Imp). Favourite Civic: Free Religion.

wasnt he born in york or something

 

[Nilmerf]

wasnt he born in york or something

No, his father died in York though.. at that's where Constantine was declared emperor. He was born in modern Serbia.

 

[Amenmesse]

Basically I just want to hear People Opinions and Ideas.
Which civilizations and leaders should have those following traits in the next expansion pack?
Which current leaders should switch traits to better suit new leaders entering the game or better suit their own characteristics, achievements, etc...
How should we utilise the forbidden trait combinations (Agg/Cha & Phi/Ind)?
Should assign those those trait combinations to leaders with a weak UU & UB and disadvantaged Starting techs to balance them out?
OR should we only add them so that only the AI could use them so the human Player cannot exploit these traits so they won't unbalance the game.
Any other Questions, Ideas and Opinions are welcomed.

A few ideas straight off the top of my head, although I realise that many are leaders for those civs with 2 or three leaders already; perhaps some could be worked into specific scenarios. Anyway, some food for thought; although this is one of those areas about which one could debate for hours in a pub.

1. Aggressive/Charismatic - Mussolini (WWII Scenario) / Xenobia (Arabia)
2. Aggressive/Organized* - Qin Shi Huang (China) / Ashurnasirpal II (Assyria)
3. Charismatic/Creative - ?
4. Charismatic/Industrious - Abe Lincoln (America) ? / Adolf Hitler (Germany)
5. Charismatic/Philosophical - Acamapichtli (Aztec) / Haile Selassie I (Ethiopia)
6. Creative/Expansive - Pericles (Greece) / Babur (India)
7. Creative/Financial - Lorenzo the Magnificent (Rome / Italy)
8. Creative/Philosophical - Ramkhamhaeng (Siam)
9. Creative/Protective - ?
10. Expansive/Financial - William of Orange (Dutch)
11. Expansive/Imperialistic - Tuthmosis III (Egypt) / Sharpur I (Persia)
12. Financial/Organized - Muhammed Ali (Egypt) / Hammurabi (Babylonia)
13. Imperialistic/Industrious - Meiji (Japan) / Nebuchadnezzar II (Babylonia)
14. Imperialistic/Philosophical - Suleiman the Magnificent (Turkey)
15. Imperialistic/Protective - Justinian (Rome)? / Edward I (England)
16. Imperialistic/Spiritual - Philip IV (Spain) / Pope Urban II (Italy )
17. Industrious/Philosophical - Ataturk (Turkey)
18. Organized/Protective - Sitting Bull (Sioux) / Canute (Viking)
19. Philosophical/Protective -

 

[Amenmesse]

Imperialistic/Spiritual - Constantine the Great, Roman Empire. The first Christian (Spi) Emperor (Imp). Favourite Civic: Free Religion.

I think Constantine would be more Imperialistic / Organised than Spiritual. He didn't adopt Christianity until late in his reign - according to some he was not baptised until he was on his death bed. He spent more of his time reconquering parts of the empire, reviving and reforming the administrative and legal basis of the empire - politically symbolised by the re-founding of 'Rome' in Constantinople.

 

[Lockesdonkey]

Some ideas...

Aggressive/Organized* = Meiji (Japan)
Creative/Philosophical* = al Rashid (Arabia)
Expansive/Imperialistic = Wu Di (China)
Imperialistic/Industrious = Suleyman (Ottoman)
Imperialistic/Philosophical = Akbar (India)
Imperialistic/Spiritual = Abu Bakr (Arabia)

No Abu Bakr! Man, was my uncle mad when he heard that they dared to try and portray a Sahaba accurately for PTW...

Meiji wasn't really that aggressive; he was just "keeping up with the Joneses," as it were, by reorganizing the Japanese military and beating up on his neighbors. Imp/Ind is more like it; he built up an empire (granted, that was keeping up with the Joneses, too, but basically all of the European overseas empires started that way, too) and created an industrialized Japan. Org/Pro could do OK, too, I guess; as could Exp/Imp and Exp/Fin.

Xenobia (actially, should be Zenobia) wasn't really an Arab. Her civilization was, geographically, linguistically, and culturally halfway between the Hebrew/Phoenician civilization and the desert Arabs.

Imp/Spi could be Negus Ezama of Axum/Abyssinia/Ethiopia/whatever; Like Constantine, Christianized his nation, then destroyed his neighbors. Unlike Constantine, took his Christianity seriously.

 

[Amenmesse]

Xenobia (actially, should be Zenobia) wasn't really an Arab. Her civilization was, geographically, linguistically, and culturally halfway between the Hebrew/Phoenician civilization and the desert Arabs.
/

She was the daughter of an Arab chieftain and from a family of Arabian descent. She'd be an interesting addition to the game, I think, although where she should go is harder to decide. Technically she's hellenised, but I don't think she'd 'go' with the Greeks as well.

 

[Nilmerf]

I think Constantine would be more Imperialistic / Organised than Spiritual. He didn't adopt Christianity until late in his reign - according to some he was not baptised until he was on his death bed. He spent more of his time reconquering parts of the empire, reviving and reforming the administrative and legal basis of the empire - politically symbolised by the re-founding of 'Rome' in Constantinople.

Nope, Imperialistic/Spiritual is better. Justinian is the epitome of Organized as far as Roman/Byzantine emperors go.. he completely reformed and edited the law. Constantine was said to have visions from God and his subsequent conversion to Christianity impacted western culture phenomenally. Aside from the founding of Constantinople, his legacy will forever be the Edict of Milan and the Council of Nicaea. I don't know why people always bring up how he was baptised late in life as if it takes away from him. The fact that he was baptised at all is remarkable. Rome wasn't built in a day, you know.

 

[Harrier]

Imperialistic/Spiritual - Constantine the Great, Roman Empire. The first Christian (Spi) Emperor (Imp). Favourite Civic: Free Religion.

Favorite Civic: Can not be free religion, as he imposed Christianity over the old Roman Gods, for political purposes of course.

When he was initially made Emperor - it was only of a quarter of the empire based around Espania and Gaul. There were four Emperors.

He then conquered the Italian and old Carthage areas - to control the Western Empire. (Still two Eastern Emperors left).

Need I go on. I can if you want me to.

But back to the point: Favourite Civic: Free Religion. {NO}.

Constantine was said to have visions from God and his subsequent conversion to Christianity impacted western culture phenomenally. Aside from the founding of Constantinople, his legacy will forever be the Edict of Milan and the Council of Nicaea. I don't know why people always bring up how he was baptised late in life as if it takes away from him.

True he had a great impact on western culture. But IMHO his conversion to Christianity was politically and not religiously motivited. I think he was one of the first true agnostics or atheists - and therefore knew if he pretended to be a Christian it would help him defeat the Eastern empire - as the oppressed Eastern Christians would revolt and help him conquer the East.

And he did achieve that.

 

[sydhe]

I believe there are a host of other leaders out there that could have these traits bestowed upon them accurately that have proven to be better leaders than the person you mentioned.

John F Kennedy would be one such person.

QUOTE]

Kennedy would more accurately be charismatic/creative

 

[kristopherb]

A few ideas straight off the top of my head, although I realise that many are leaders for those civs with 2 or three leaders already; perhaps some could be worked into specific scenarios. Anyway, some food for thought; although this is one of those areas about which one could debate for hours in a pub.

1. Aggressive/Charismatic - Mussolini (WWII Scenario) / Xenobia (Arabia)
2. Aggressive/Organized* - Qin Shi Huang (China) / Ashurnasirpal II (Assyria)
3. Charismatic/Creative - ?
4. Charismatic/Industrious - Abe Lincoln (America) ? / Adolf Hitler (Germany)
5. Charismatic/Philosophical - Acamapichtli (Aztec) / Haile Selassie I (Ethiopia)
6. Creative/Expansive - Pericles (Greece) / Babur (India)
7. Creative/Financial - Lorenzo the Magnificent (Rome / Italy)
8. Creative/Philosophical - Ramkhamhaeng (Siam)
9. Creative/Protective - ?
10. Expansive/Financial - William of Orange (Dutch)
11. Expansive/Imperialistic - Tuthmosis III (Egypt) / Sharpur I (Persia)
12. Financial/Organized - Muhammed Ali (Egypt) / Hammurabi (Babylonia)
13. Imperialistic/Industrious - Meiji (Japan) / Nebuchadnezzar II (Babylonia)
14. Imperialistic/Philosophical - Suleiman the Magnificent (Turkey)
15. Imperialistic/Protective - Justinian (Rome)? / Edward I (England)
16. Imperialistic/Spiritual - Philip IV (Spain) / Pope Urban II (Italy )
17. Industrious/Philosophical - Ataturk (Turkey)
18. Organized/Protective - Sitting Bull (Sioux) / Canute (Viking)
19. Philosophical/Protective -

good list if you mod these in it whould be great (ill test it for to see if works)

 

[Lockesdonkey]

I believe there are a host of other leaders out there that could have these traits bestowed upon them accurately that have proven to be better leaders than the person you mentioned.

John F Kennedy would be one such person.

Kennedy would more accurately be charismatic/creative

While JFK would probably have those traits, the fact is, he shouldn't be in the game at all: his two-year term was simply too short for the world to see whether or not he would be a great President (though all indications are he would probably come close).

 

[Amenmesse]

I don't know how to MOD Civ4, I don't really have the time either - I should be working on 3 papers I have due in a few weeks time!

 

[Underseer]

We need to introduce "Incompetent" and "Belligerent" traits to the game so we can add Bush.

 

[Amenmesse]

We need to introduce "Incompetent" and "Belligerent" traits to the game so we can add Bush.

Actually, it would be interesting if they factored in 'negative' traits, like you have with the faction leaders in Medieval: Total War. Although I have a feeling it would generate some controvesy and more than a few complaints

Isabella: Spiritual, Expansive, Religious Maniac

 

[wookiee]

imo hannibal should be Agg/Chm.. Isnt attacking rome a tad agressive - trying to destroy one of the largest superpowers in the ancient world? If its not then I dont know what is. And yes I know he helped get carthage back on its feet in economic terms but I still think agg is better.. then I would actually play as him more than once in a while..

 

[Nilmerf]

Favorite Civic: Can not be free religion, as he imposed Christianity over the old Roman Gods, for political purposes of course.

When he was initially made Emperor - it was only of a quarter of the empire based around Espania and Gaul. There were four Emperors.

He then conquered the Italian and old Carthage areas - to control the Western Empire. (Still two Eastern Emperors left).

Need I go on. I can if you want me to.

But back to the point: Favourite Civic: Free Religion. {NO}.

Edict of Milan:

The Edict of Milan (313) declared that the Roman Empire would be neutral with regard to religious worship, officially ending all government-sanctioned persecution, especially of Christianity. The Edict, by two Augusti (senior tetrarchs) Constantine I and Licinius gave to Christianity and other religions a status of legitimacy alongside Paganism.

Sounds like Free Religion to me. Please do not say things without backing up your claims. I have a degree in history with most of my work being done on the Roman empire..

 

[Amenmesse]

Edict of Milan:

The Edict of Milan (313) declared that the Roman Empire would be neutral with regard to religious worship, officially ending all government-sanctioned persecution, especially of Christianity. The Edict, by two Augusti (senior tetrarchs) Constantine I and Licinius gave to Christianity and other religions a status of legitimacy alongside Paganism.

Sounds like Free Religion to me. Please do not say things without backing up your claims. I have a degree in history with most of my work being done on the Roman empire..

I'd disagree again, most of Constantine's policies were conservative, with regard to religion, he was only acknowledging and building upon the grants of indulgence made by previous emperors - all his actions were to unify and strength the empire after a long period of weakness and internal division. Even the Council of Nicea was an attempt to end the continual bickering between different schools of thought, which periodically flared into rioting and civil disorder.

I think Constantine's favourite civic would be serfdom, as the majority of his policies were in favour of turning tenant farmers into workers bound to estates owned by nobles and in many areas, by Church authorities (making the Church an agency of Imperial government and control). He passed laws in 332AD making the tenants pay labour services to their lords and restricted their freedom to leave the lands of their lords, in return for military protection from their lords; establishing serfdom and the feudal system.

His laws reflected his overriding desire to return structure, order and stability to the empire.

Anyway, back on topic - I'm not sure they could include enough leaders in the game to use up all the combinations of traits. Perhaps each leader should have two principle traits and a third modifying trait that does not grant the bonuses of the others, but affects how the AI behaves.

 

[Watiggi]

Actually, it would be interesting if they factored in 'negative' traits, like you have with the faction leaders in Medieval: Total War. Although I have a feeling it would generate some controvesy and more than a few complaints

Isabella: Spiritual, Expansive, Religious Maniac

I thought of this too. They could be 'negative' but also actually be a bonus in some way too.

Ruthless: can pop city unhappiness, ie, kill population to restore order. (Genghis, Qin)
Cunning: can move scouts though closed border territory. (Genghis)
Cruel: (Qin, Peter)
Indulgent: (Louis)
Eccentric:
Narrowminded:
Myopic: (Alex)
Judgemental: (Isabella)
Self Absorbed: (Louis)
Promiscious: (Cathy)
Greedy:
Reckless:
Parranoid:
Controlling: better disciplined army. +2xp for units built. (Qin, Genghis)
Manipulative:
Psychopathic: (Monty)
Selfish:
Hypocritical:
Gutless:
Insane:

... just to name a few.

 

[Nilmerf]

I think Constantine's favourite civic would be serfdom

Seeing as how you think Constantine's favourite civic should be serfdom, when in fact that system did not even exist until well after Constantine's time basically ends this discussion.

Anyways, the main point is.. we need El Cid! Spain desperately needs a second leader. And El Cid is amazing. Anyone read "The Poem of the Cid"? A great, fairly short read that depicts Cid as the epitome of chivalry and loyal vassalage. And I don't use the word epitome lightly! Awesome stuff.