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1984, Faranheit 451, and Animal Farm- Real or Coincidence?

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by tombeef, Mar 29, 2006.

  1. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

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    I find this thread to be doubleplusungood.
     
  2. Riffraff

    Riffraff Chieftain

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    I agree with Sidhe, i also find that Brave New World seems to be closer to the future coming up than the other books.
     
  3. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    I am slightly worried that the USA feels that it can push other countries around. I'm also worried that Australia is (IMO) becoming the 51st state of USA. Howard is too close to Bush IMO, and will cause Australia to become a pawn. Well, more of a pawn than it already is.
     
  4. PrinceOfLeigh

    PrinceOfLeigh Wigan, England

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    No way, you aren't beating us to that. Tony Blair is already sowing on the extra star for us over here. You can be 52nd. Think of the Olympic Team we'd have!

    On a serious note I would wonder whether the US is more totalitarian now than it was in the 50's when everyone was on 'Commie Watch' (a phenom which continues on CFC by some people) . Having not lived there for any substantial period of time I don't know.

    I do now that in my country I get depressed at the scare-mongering and draconian legislation brought in on the back of it. Safety first culture is also leading to more red tape which basically restricts people's freedom. Having said that, being in the Ambulance Chasing business, I'm partly to blame.
     
  5. Mulholland

    Mulholland Happy New Year!!!!

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    Isn't Prudhoe Bay a huge Oil depot/Refinery in the US. And doesn't also have a rather large Military base nearby?
    As to whether the US is becoming a totalitarian state I think that is a bit far fetched. Peoples' freedoms are always restricted in times of war, it's just a matter of degree. Wheter It could swing further if unchecked by an apathetic unimformed electorte. You bet.
     
  6. bhsup

    bhsup Chieftain

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    Hrm... my ears are burning for some reason. ;)
     
  7. joycem10

    joycem10 Chieftain

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    I saw a pig smoking a cigar the other day, very worrying. Orwell was right.
     
  8. PrinceOfLeigh

    PrinceOfLeigh Wigan, England

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    :lol: I've no idea why that would be so ;)

    Apologies for the :crazyeye: , I've removed it :)

    EDIT: Did I use more smilies than words in this post?
     
  9. bhsup

    bhsup Chieftain

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    Heh! No need to have removed the crazy eyes. I may be strident, and even pushy with my commie (among other topics) comments, but I'm certainly not easily offended. Heck, given the positions I espouse, I'd be hypocritical in the extreme to be offended by a harmless smilie. So 'crazy-eye' me all you want, I'm thick skinned enough to take it. Besides, it MIGHT be warranted! :goodjob:
     
  10. anarres

    anarres anarchist revolutionary

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    You seem to be omitting the worst fact of all....

    This is no normal "war", there is no clear end to it.

    The reduced civil liberties will never be brought back. Patriot act is here to stay, Big Brother is a fact, and your enforcement agencies can essentially treat you like an animal with no rights at all, just by saying "national security".

    The USA is very screwed.
     
  11. PrinceOfLeigh

    PrinceOfLeigh Wigan, England

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    A refreshingly sensible view :goodjob:
    No more than we are. Crime & Terrorism Acts and DNA held on anyone wanting a passport (to name just two) isn't 'freedom'.
     
  12. anarres

    anarres anarchist revolutionary

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    Heh, we are less screwed IMO, but it's still not good.

    Certainly in 10 years we will be as bad as the US is now, unless we get a real left wing governemnt in.

    The USA only has right-wing and more right-wing. They are worse than us and getting worse at a faster rate.

    I'd still rather be here thanks.

    And like all of us in the UK, we are EU members and pretty much can live and work anywhere in the EU without even having to tell someone. Until the whole EU is screwed at least we can run when it gets too bad.

    Heh..... I can just see the US immigrants flooding to Canada in 10 years time if the Bu****es stayed in power in the US. :lol:
     
  13. classical_hero

    classical_hero In whom I trust

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    Truth is often stranger than fiction.
     
  14. Phlegmak

    Phlegmak Chieftain

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    My post here is not aimed at the above poster, but at most of the people stating the same things.

    The US is NOT a totalitarian state. It never has been.

    There are plenty of things that resemble Oceania in 1984 -- such as the Patriot Act being similar to thoughtcrime. But it's NOT thoughtcrime. Any of us can still say and do whatever we want. The only spoken or written crime I can think of right now is threatening the president.

    Yes, the US is heading in the direction of Oceania, but it's not there yet. Not even close. Not even remotely close.

    NOTE: If any of you calls me a Bush apologist then you're just a moron.
     
  15. PrinceOfLeigh

    PrinceOfLeigh Wigan, England

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    Thanks for the consideration :)
    I didn't say that it was, the point was whether it is becoming more totalitarian with the enactment of instruments like the USPATRIOT Act and Homeland Security
    That was our point, but we are heading in the wrong direction. By 'we' I include Britain as our politics seem to be mirroring yours in this regard.
    Damned Bush apologist commie fundies :mischief:
     
  16. Phlegmak

    Phlegmak Chieftain

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    I felt like posting this for fun.

    Don't Bush, his administration, and the things they say have a lot of similarities to this man?

    Link
     
  17. amadeus

    amadeus めっちゃしんどい

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    I fail to see your point; kids shouldn't be allowed to participate in extracurricular activities?

    People were saying the same thing 20, 50, 100, and probably 200 years ago.

    The last time I checked, the average TV show ran 22 minutes, the same as it's been for many years.

    You're reading a little too much into the whole situation. I think there is some legitimacy to Congress' complaint that children would find professional athletes as role models and try to copy their behavior, which has resulted in children dying.

    You're the one connecting them, but you're using very vauge and broad comparisons as opposed to specific concerns.

    Kids like sports, advertising has always been around, and steroids can be dangerous. What's Orwellian about this?
     
  18. Xanikk999

    Xanikk999 History junkie

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    I dont see the U.S heading into a totalitarian state. True the patriot act did restrict some freedoms. However i dont think it would ever get to a totalitarian state as we see it in 1984 or some movies.

    We still have lots of freedoms like freedom of speech (as long as its not slander or libel and not inciting trouble), and some others (Its been awhile since i took a government class).

    I just see this is a little more security at the cost of minor freedoms. I doubt this government would do anything drastic. I live right near capital hill for your information btw.
     
  19. sourboy

    sourboy Awakening...

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    Simple. Our focus determines our reality. Whether we try 'to do' something, or try 'to avoid' something, we tend to end up at that point (or next door to it). This is true in all regards.
     
  20. tombeef

    tombeef Chieftain

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    First off, I wasn't trying to connect them myself as much as to give a broad idea of some similarities. I don't think that the US is heading towards a totalitarian state, however, all empires do crumble at some point. A lot of these connections may be coincidental.

    No, I'm not saying kids shouldn't focus on extracurricular activities, but isn't the overall emphasis on sports/fame/glamour greater then that of education, at least when it comes to the media? We personify sports figures as heroes, instead of the scientists working on a way to cure cancer.

    This is a good point. While government powers increase during war time, that very government has said that we are in a permanent war against terror. There will always be terrorists, there will always be people who hate the western world. So does that mean that there will always be a Patriot Act, does that mean security will be continually increased?

    I'll end with a famous quote:

    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little freedom, would desire neither, and lose both." Benjamin Franklin

    We have definately given up some liberty for freedom. It hasn't gotten to the point where it affects the average citizen, but will it?
     

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