1st game at Emperor

[Fergei]

I am struggling to reconcile your statement:

The trade rep does indeed seem to be broken. That makes gaining a strong position even harder.

with my ability to get a balance of 6k gold and 437gpt from the AI within a 30 minute test of playing the saved game. I will defer to your knowledge of trade rep settings, but I'll stand by my position that the financial state in my screenshot (resulting pretty much exclusively from trade) cannot be in any way described as "broken".

Once I'd done my usual schmoozing of the AI (RoP, MPPs and trades that were on generous terms from my end) the trade situation was no less pleasant than any other I've experienced. I note the link you provided indicates potential for an MPP to improve a trade rep (although it appears to imply only if it results in a war). It doesn't state that such an improvement in the trade rep cannot be achieved "fairly quickly".

If it helps, if I remember right WJ was paying the Celts 61 gpt for coal in their save file and Brennus happily renewed it (e.g. if this is something that is not possible with a broken trade rep).

Sadly, due to the risk of auto-war I would never recommend default espionage (i.e. planting a spy) to anyone in any situation of military inferiority, ever. Such a shame.

 

[tjs282]

Trade-rep is not the same as AI attitude.

WJ has a broken trade-rep, but that doesn't mean he can't trade, just that he can't buy up-front goods (like techs) in exchange for per-turn payments, from anyone currently at peace with whoever he broke a deal with.

Buying resources from the AI for GPT is always possible, but with an intact trade-rep you can also get the AI to give you a small gold-payment as "change" for any 'overpayment'.

(I'm not certain, but it seems that can also help to keep them honest, and not backstab you with a DOW)

 

[Fergei]

Trade-rep is not the same as AI attitude.

WJ has a broken trade-rep, but that doesn't mean he can't trade, just that he can't buy up-front goods (like techs) in exchange for per-turn payments, from anyone currently at peace with whoever he broke a deal with.

Buying resources from the AI for GPT is always possible, but with an intact trade-rep you can also get the AI to give you a small gold-payment as "change" for any 'overpayment'.

(I'm not certain, but it seems that can also help to keep them honest, and not backstab you with a DOW)

Thanks. I can see why that would be a consideration if you were taking a step up in difficulty, even if you were able to make a lot if money through resource/luxury trades. Sorry for doubting you justanick!

 

[justanick]

I am struggling to reconcile your statement:

with my ability to get a balance of 6k gold and 437gpt from the AI within a 30 minute test of playing the saved game.

This shows that a broken trade reputation may be a serious annoyance that can be of strategic importance. But if you are able to research at a reasonable rate and export resources and luxuries, then this does not negate the possibility of long term success.

 

[Spoonwood]

You can test whether your rep's broken by finding an AI with lots of gold, asking for, say, 100 lump-sum, and offering 6-7 GPT for it in return (120-140 gold total repayment). If that would be "insulting", then your rep is busted.

But if you've got plenty of income to cover a proposed payment, and you're offering a fair return -- such as buying 100g from them for 6-7 GPT -- and your foreign advisor still says that they would find that "insulting", that's when you know your rep is toast.

I don't think you're correct here.

If playing with maximum aggression in no case would your statement hold. The starting exchange rate at maximum aggression is 1 gpt for 14 gold. 7 gpt is only 98 gold.

I think at normal aggression, if you made a number of ridiculous demands such as asking for large AI cities repeatedly, then the exchange rate drops from 16 gpt to at least 14 gpt after a small number of such demands.

WJ has a broken trade-rep, but that doesn't mean he can't trade, just that he can't buy up-front goods (like techs) in exchange for per-turn payments, from anyone currently at peace with whoever he broke a deal with.

@Fergei @WeirdoJoker Even with a "broken reputation" (a vague term of which I'm not sure on it's exact meaning), I think it is still possible to exchange 1 gpt for at least 1 gold. If gold is not an up-front good maps can still get bought also. Is gold not an up-front good?

Even with the most broken of trade reputations, it's still possible to accrue a large amount of gpt eventually, if one can get very large amounts of gpt from AIs (this can get forced as LordofDread brilliantly showed).

 

[tjs282]

I don't play with the AIs set to max. aggression, and I'm pretty sure WJ doesn't either. Repaying the AI 40% more gold than they "loaned" you is a usually a more than acceptable deal at normal aggression.

And sure, if you're willing (and more to the point, able) to pay 20x the "fair" per-turn price for an upfront purchase, then it could be argued that there is no such thing as a 'broken' trade-rep. But then you have to start using e.g the capital-disconnect trick, to avoid paying that money.

 

[kaskavel]

Lot of good advice here. Only thing I can add is that emperor is a "nice" level. If you have mastered some of the game mechanics well, you can run very enjoyable games (not certain wins, not certain losses) that feel quite "real". The AI's advantages are big enough to force you to play optimally and carefully, micromanaging stuff and thinking a lot about every single decision, but not that big that you need to start doing very weird things in order to win (you know, all those things some people consider exploits, I am not going to name them here).

 

[justanick]

Only thing I can add is that emperor is a "nice" level. If you have mastered some of the game mechanics well, you can run very enjoyable games (not certain wins, not certain losses) that feel quite "real". The AI's advantages are big enough to force you to play optimally and carefully, micromanaging stuff and thinking a lot about every single decision, but not that big that you need to start doing very weird things in order to win (you know, all those things some people consider exploits, I am not going to name them here).

While i generally share your general feeling about Emperor, what you say is still true for Demigod and Deity, albeit obviously to a lesser extent. Only at Sid you need to play truely optimally. Emperor still allows sometimes significant leeway for suboptimal play. The starting position etc. does matter a lot.

 

[kaskavel]

While i generally share your general feeling about Emperor, what you say is still true for Demigod and Deity, albeit obviously to a lesser extent. Only at Sid you need to play truely optimally. Emperor still allows sometimes significant leeway for suboptimal play. The starting position etc. does matter a lot.

Well, I guess you are right...Let me rephrase it a bit perhaps. On Emperor, I get a feeling I "compete" by simply playing correctly. Accuracy, micromanagement and planning seem to more or less counter AI's advantages by themselves. On Demigod, the feeling I get is that I am trying to "catch up" by doing something special. Make some gains through dimplomacy, war, or something, so I do not end up left further behind. The ball feels to be on my court and I need to act if I am to make gains and win the game. This kind of pressure does not seem to exist on Emperor. He builds faster, I handle better, it somewhat balances out.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

Ok, getting ready to start another try (i.e., at Emperor) ... this time Sumerians/Large/Continents-80%. Any tips going into it?

ETA: I'm thinking whether or not I can trade for Alphabet early (I'll try), I can initiate an early GA to help get the Republic slingshot ... ?

 

[justanick]

Ok, getting ready to start another try (i.e., at Emperor) ... this time Sumerians/Large/Continents-80%. Any tips going into it?

Donnot rush it. Maybe play the first 40 turns in one day, but then decrease the tempo to about 10 turns per day so there is a chance for timely feedback. It is the first 100 to 150 turns that matter most.

On a large map you want to have many units for exploration and especially for meeting tech-trade partners. You need to balance this with free unit support. Having a few towns very close to the capital can help with that and with having a good research output. Once you are in the middle of the middle age you may abandon towns that no longer suit you then, but were essential for both getting the slingshot and for the phase of the early republic when balancing unit support is a tricky business.

In the very early game it can make sense to spend nothing on research and aim for buying techs at a preferable price instead. Research techs when you can be reasonably confident that AI is unlikely to research them.

Thread 'What will the AI research next?'

Feb 24, 2003

It has happened to all of us. We go full-speed to get a tech so we can sell it to all the AIs and get rich, only to find that some AI is also researching the same tech, gets it before us, and sells it to everyone. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to predict what technology the AI will research next?

Well, after reading this post, you can at least have an idea of the AI priorities.

The AI places a value on each technology it can research next. The values depend on the various things allowed by each technology, as well as on the turns needed by that AI civ to complete the research. Here...

• alexman
• Replies: 89
• Forum: Civ3 Strategy Articles

I can initiate an early GA to help get the Republic slingshot ... ?

Unless you play at Sid i do discourage an early GA. You want the GA to apply to as many tiles with low corruption as reasonably possible. So that implies having over 100 used tiles and already being a republic.

Thread 'Everything about Corruption: C3C edition'

Jan 25, 2004

This is a guide about how corruption works in Conquests. It's slightly different than how it used to work in PTW and vanilla Civ3.

The information that follows was discovered by extensive testing and contributions by numerous members of the Civ3 community, including Aeson, DaviddesJ, Nor Me, and Qitai. We also recently got some inside information (a look at some of the actual corruption code), which helped find the last few missing pieces of the corruption puzzle.

DEFINITIONS

Corruption in Civilization 3 is commerce from city tiles that cannot be used by the empire...

• alexman
• Replies: 120
• Forum: Civ3 Strategy Articles

• 

At large, Emperor, non-commercial tribe, republic with FP and courthouse Nopt is 40.04. Add the capital with rank zero and this means that you can have 41 cities with a rank corruption below 50%. 41 cities with 13 tiles each would be 533 used tiles prior to hospital. Now, you may very well not fully exploit that optimal amount. But if there is a reasonably way to mitigate the underutilization of your potential, you should try to use it.

What reasonably means in that context is of course very open to interpretation.

 

[justanick]

If you aim for the republic slingshot and play a large map, then starting with alphabet has significant advantages. You can start researching Writing at 1 beaker per turn for 50 turns. So either playing the Netherlands or the Iroquis makes things considerably easier. The Iroquois have the better UU, but the Netherland have faster Curraghs for exploration and meeting tech-trade partners.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

If you aim for the republic slingshot and play a large map, then starting with alphabet has significant advantages. You can start researching Writing at 1 beaker per turn for 50 turns. So either playing the Netherlands or the Iroquis makes things considerably easier. The Iroquois have the better UU, but the Netherland have faster Curraghs for exploration and meeting tech-trade partners.

Yeah, I was thinking about switching to one of those for that reason. Will flip a coin. Or maybe will try it and then do Sumerians next game.

ETA: Going to try Iroquois, when time (i.e., work) permits.

 

[tenny]

Ok, getting ready to start another try (i.e., at Emperor) ... this time Sumerians/Large/Continents-80%. Any tips going into it?

ETA: I'm thinking whether or not I can trade for Alphabet early (I'll try), I can initiate an early GA to help get the Republic slingshot ... ?

If you start near a river, your chances will increase greatly greatly. You starting position in this game was quite bad. From the game I could not really figure out how you are placing cities or how you manage your workers. 10 workers seemed a bit low, but you also did not manage to build many cities early on. Often it is advisable to found cities close to each other, especially on rivers, about two tiles apart. It increases growth and reduces the need for other improvements early quite much. I think you should rethink your attitude towards war. Early stack of units and wars usually pay off really well, and a lot of early improvements are almost waste of shields.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

If you start near a river, your chances will increase greatly greatly. You starting position in this game was quite bad.

Yeah, that's why I abandoned that game & started over. Unfortunately, the only really good thing about the one I'm in now is that my starting position had 5 Wines easily accessible. 1 Iron, eventually got Horses for my Mounted Warriors. Not much else, small continent (on a Large map) sharing with India and Rome.

I think you should rethink your attitude towards war. Early stack of units and wars usually pay off really well.

Yeah, it's a tough one. I really like going for the Spaceship, and I always have trouble no matter how many early units I build keeping up with the AI on that. I often wait to start wars at least until I get Cavalry ... I feel like (maybe I'm wrong) 90% of the time I can't win a battle to save my life without an overwhelming advantage going into it.