Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.
All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.
VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 2
Discussion Thread: (2-02) Proposal: Coups require one successful election rigging to activate
Proposer: @Stalker0
Sponsor: @axatin
Proposal Details
Proposal: The coup button begins inactive with a tooltip noting, "you have not yet completed an election rigging in this city state". Once one election rigging has occurred, the button activates, and coups can proceed as normal. Anytime you move the spy into a new CS, you must complete a new rigging to start coups again.
Rationale: Currently coups are far too strong. It is easy to spam them, and they activate in relative short order, that it makes all other spy activities look like child's play in comparison. It is trivial to control massive numbers of CS through coups at the moment, there needs to be a nerf. This proposal maintains the strength of coups but also greatly increases the time it takes to activate them. This prevents players from just moving spies around constantly couping, you now need to "invest" some time in the city state to get the benefit. Thematically this also makes sense, you have to rig some elections and get your spies situated before you can pull off a coup.
VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 2a
Discussion Thread: (2-02a) Counterproposal: Reduce "Coup X CS" quest yields by 75%.
Proposer: @Stalker0 (not normally allowed, but I grandfathered it because the rule change wasn't implemented yet)
Sponsor: @axatin
Proposal Details
Proposal: The Coup X CS quest generates Y amount of GPP for all gp types in your capital. We are reducing the yields to Y * .25 (aka 75% reduction, or simply a quarter of what the yields were before).
Rationale: This quest is by far the most overpowered quest in the game, able to generate insane numbers of extra GPPs, and for a quest that is trivially easy to do. The only other quest that gives this type of bonus is the "get the highest number of followers" quest, which is significantly harder to do, require a great deal more investment, and still doesn't generate as many GPPs.
This quest needs a major major nerf, and so I am going with a full 75% nerf. Even at this numbers it will still be an easy quest to do to pick up more GPP.
VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 2b
Discussion Thread: (2-02b) Counterproposal: Increase coup success rate based on number of rigged elections (with other changes on formula)
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @axatin
Proposal Details
Coups are very powerful, but completely rely on RNG. Losing a coup also sends your influence to rock bottom and kills your spy.
This proposal would add a way to guarantee successful coups, at the cost of spy turns.
Current formula of base success rate B = (50 - D / 25)%
Current formula of final success rate R = B * (1 + 0.1 * (L - LE + IB)) * (1 + PM)
Proposed formula of base success rate B = (50 - D / (25 - (L - LE) * 5) + N * 20)%
Proposed formula of final success rate R = 1 - (1 - B) ^ ((1 + 0.2 * IB) * (1 + PM))
where D = influence difference from current ally
L = 0, 1, 2 for Recruit, Agent and Special Agent respectively
LE = Rank of Enemy Spy, if there is one in the CS
IB = Rank bonus from Cultural Influence: 1 if the player's culture is popular over the current ally of the CS, 2 if influential, 3 if dominant
PM = Modifier from Policies (currently only used for "covert action" with a value of 1)
N = number of successful rigged elections done by any of your spies in this CS after the last successful coup
N is limited to "after the last successful coup" in order to
1. prevent easy counter-coup 20 turns after a successful one;
2. create a dilemma where you both want to coup later for higher success chance and earlier than your rival does.
Spy rank difference is moved to the formula for B to make spy rank always helpful in coups (otherwise it doesn't matter if B is 100%).
Rationale of changing the formula for R, as mentioned in comments:
Now it's possible to have a 100% success rate of coup if your spy stays for long enough.
EDIT 1: Changed the proposed formula and title after getting the full current formula from @axatin
VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 2c
Discussion Thread: (2-02c) Counterproposal: Change "Coup X CS" quest yields to gold
Proposer: @CrazyG
Sponsor: @axatin
Proposal Details
Hello all,
I propose this quest gives gold instead of great people points. It currently gives a few hundred GPP, and I propose the same quantity for the gold.
This quest is game warping, throwing off the balance of many things including cultural victories. A hundred influence + a few hundred gold is a solid quest reward for an action that is already very profitable.
Alternative to this: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...x-cs-quest-yields-by-75.680424/#post-16365135
Stalker's suggestion is good, but I think GPP is unusual flavor wise, and a 75% reduction honestly might not be enough.
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.
All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.
VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 2
Discussion Thread: (2-02) Proposal: Coups require one successful election rigging to activate
Proposer: @Stalker0
Sponsor: @axatin
Proposal Details
Proposal: The coup button begins inactive with a tooltip noting, "you have not yet completed an election rigging in this city state". Once one election rigging has occurred, the button activates, and coups can proceed as normal. Anytime you move the spy into a new CS, you must complete a new rigging to start coups again.
Rationale: Currently coups are far too strong. It is easy to spam them, and they activate in relative short order, that it makes all other spy activities look like child's play in comparison. It is trivial to control massive numbers of CS through coups at the moment, there needs to be a nerf. This proposal maintains the strength of coups but also greatly increases the time it takes to activate them. This prevents players from just moving spies around constantly couping, you now need to "invest" some time in the city state to get the benefit. Thematically this also makes sense, you have to rig some elections and get your spies situated before you can pull off a coup.
VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 2a
Discussion Thread: (2-02a) Counterproposal: Reduce "Coup X CS" quest yields by 75%.
Proposer: @Stalker0 (not normally allowed, but I grandfathered it because the rule change wasn't implemented yet)
Sponsor: @axatin
Proposal Details
Proposal: The Coup X CS quest generates Y amount of GPP for all gp types in your capital. We are reducing the yields to Y * .25 (aka 75% reduction, or simply a quarter of what the yields were before).
Rationale: This quest is by far the most overpowered quest in the game, able to generate insane numbers of extra GPPs, and for a quest that is trivially easy to do. The only other quest that gives this type of bonus is the "get the highest number of followers" quest, which is significantly harder to do, require a great deal more investment, and still doesn't generate as many GPPs.
This quest needs a major major nerf, and so I am going with a full 75% nerf. Even at this numbers it will still be an easy quest to do to pick up more GPP.
VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 2b
Discussion Thread: (2-02b) Counterproposal: Increase coup success rate based on number of rigged elections (with other changes on formula)
Proposer: @azum4roll
Sponsor: @axatin
Proposal Details
Coups are very powerful, but completely rely on RNG. Losing a coup also sends your influence to rock bottom and kills your spy.
This proposal would add a way to guarantee successful coups, at the cost of spy turns.
Current formula of base success rate B = (50 - D / 25)%
Current formula of final success rate R = B * (1 + 0.1 * (L - LE + IB)) * (1 + PM)
Proposed formula of base success rate B = (50 - D / (25 - (L - LE) * 5) + N * 20)%
Proposed formula of final success rate R = 1 - (1 - B) ^ ((1 + 0.2 * IB) * (1 + PM))
where D = influence difference from current ally
L = 0, 1, 2 for Recruit, Agent and Special Agent respectively
LE = Rank of Enemy Spy, if there is one in the CS
IB = Rank bonus from Cultural Influence: 1 if the player's culture is popular over the current ally of the CS, 2 if influential, 3 if dominant
PM = Modifier from Policies (currently only used for "covert action" with a value of 1)
N = number of successful rigged elections done by any of your spies in this CS after the last successful coup
N is limited to "after the last successful coup" in order to
1. prevent easy counter-coup 20 turns after a successful one;
2. create a dilemma where you both want to coup later for higher success chance and earlier than your rival does.
Spy rank difference is moved to the formula for B to make spy rank always helpful in coups (otherwise it doesn't matter if B is 100%).
Rationale of changing the formula for R, as mentioned in comments:
Now it's possible to have a 100% success rate of coup if your spy stays for long enough.
EDIT 1: Changed the proposed formula and title after getting the full current formula from @axatin
VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 2c
Discussion Thread: (2-02c) Counterproposal: Change "Coup X CS" quest yields to gold
Proposer: @CrazyG
Sponsor: @axatin
Proposal Details
Hello all,
I propose this quest gives gold instead of great people points. It currently gives a few hundred GPP, and I propose the same quantity for the gold.
This quest is game warping, throwing off the balance of many things including cultural victories. A hundred influence + a few hundred gold is a solid quest reward for an action that is already very profitable.
Alternative to this: https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...x-cs-quest-yields-by-75.680424/#post-16365135
Stalker's suggestion is good, but I think GPP is unusual flavor wise, and a 75% reduction honestly might not be enough.
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