[Vote] (2-07) Proposal: Allow purchases of religious units, religious buildings and worker units in puppet cities

[balparmak]

Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" if you'd be okay if this proposal was implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if this proposal wasn't implemented.

You can vote for both options, which is equivalent to saying "I'm fine either way", but adds to the required quorum of 10 votes in favor.

All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.

VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 7
Problem: Moving the mentioned units to puppet cities feels like a chore, especially in cases where the puppet has another coastline than your other cities and you end up moving a workboat around the continent.
Proposal: I think puppets have enough nerfs already, allowing them to purchase religious units (missionary and inquisitor), religious buildings and worker units (worker and workboat) would just remove some unfun micro. The cost and the cooldown will be increased by 50% in puppets to keep them worse than normal cities. Other faith purchases, such as Great People, combat units and archaeologists will remain disallowed in puppets.
Thanks to HungryForFood we already have a working code for religious purchases, and it can be modified for worker units easily, you can test them both with the embedded links. I've been using them in conjunction for a long time, never had any issues.
I sponsor this.

 

[ma_kuh]

You can invest in buildings in puppets, right? Is there a reason you shouldn't just be able to make gold purchases in puppets for units as well? Especially if you add the +50% purchase CD? Just asking some rhetorical questions to probe the idea.

Just re-read, I realize you aren't talking about Zealotry-purchased faith units, you're saying religious units.

 

[balparmak]

Yeah I thought I added a note for that, apparently not. Updating the proposal for clarification.

 

[Stalker0]

I've been using this modmod for a while, and I personally really like it, especially for fishing boats

 

[pineappledan]

I dislike. Being able to purchase in the city is one of the perks of annexation. If the puppet has another coastline from your other cities that's a strong reason to annex. This is one of the main things that sets Venice apart.

 

[nekokon]

Isn't part of this already in game though (able to buy religious building and work boat/worker in puppet cities, just not religion units) , unless one of the mod mod I'm using sneaked that in.

 

[CppMaster]

Isn't part of this already in game though (able to buy religious building and work boat/worker in puppet cities, just not religion units) , unless one of the mod mod I'm using sneaked that in.

Nope

 

[nekokon]

Then I agree with this change. Puppet city is already nerfed to only useful for healing and luxury, able to buy civilian units from there won't affect any grand balance while being a good QoL thing.
Would be another thing if it's faith bought military units or normal buildings, those would definitely change balance.

 

[azum4roll]

Yes, but only for non-GP civilian units, i.e. worker, work boat, missionary, inquisitor, archaeologist. There's no need to increase cost.

 

[Recursive]

Proposal sponsored by balparmak.

 

[youngsteve]

I was going to add a proposal for being able to buy faith buildings in puppets when I saw your proposal. Definitely needed as puppets are a waste of time, & this is the final straw when you have religious policies like buying Cathedrals/Churches etc & take Fealty, & cannot build any of the buildings. Never ever use puppets. AI agrees as either razes cities or annexes them.

 

[alchx]

Puppets - although they obey the conqueror, they nevertheless retain self-government.

I don't like the option to buy religious buildings in puppets. This will reduce the pressure of foreign religions without annexation.

Buying workers is not the most important part, as workers are often captured. If you don't like workers with a 50 turn penalty, then this is a good reason to bring workers from the core of your empire.

Buying work boats - I agree that this should be allowed. A workboat speed of 2-3 tiles is not enough to efficiently deliver it from anywhere (even a worker moves 4 tiles in the ocean) if sea resources are constantly being plundered. There is already a 5-turn cooldown to buy civilian units to prevent boat spamming.

 

[youngsteve]

I don't like the option to buy religious buildings in puppets. This will reduce the pressure of foreign religions without annexation.

I disagree totally. In fact the main reason I would like to pass this proposal is to enable you to buy religious building in puppets. The rest you can build in other cities, but this you are unable to do.
For instance one of the religious policies I like to take is the Enhancer belief Sacred Sites where you gain 3 tourism each turn for each religious building bought. You cannot do that with puppeted cities. That doesn't include the benefits of religious pressure gained.

All this does is makes me either raze any city gained or annex them. AI seems to feel the same way, as it also does this. I think the mod should be finding ways to get people to have puppeted cities, as frankly there is currently no incentive to do so, though passing this would at least make a difference.

 

[alchx]

I disagree totally. In fact the main reason I would like to pass this proposal is to enable you to buy religious building in puppets. The rest you can build in other cities, but this you are unable to do.
For instance one of the religious policies I like to take is the Enhancer belief Sacred Sites where you gain 3 tourism each turn for each religious building bought. You cannot do that with puppeted cities. That doesn't include the benefits of religious pressure gained.

All this does is makes me either raze any city gained or annex them. AI seems to feel the same way, as it also does this. I think the mod should be finding ways to get people to have puppeted cities, as frankly there is currently no incentive to do so, though passing this would at least make a difference.

A great example of why you shouldn't be allowed to buy religious buildings. You want to receive religion bonuses without increasing science and policies penalties for each additional city. Or bring religion to the enemy earlier and wait until (if) he buys this building and then capture the city. Or annex.

 

[youngsteve]

A great example of why you shouldn't be allowed to buy religious buildings. You want to receive religion bonuses without increasing science and policies penalties for each additional city. Or bring religion to the enemy earlier and wait until (if) he buys this building and then capture the city. Or annex.

Sorry, at the moment there is no reason to make puppets out of a conquered city. Just raze or annex it is the better option. You need to have good reason to have any, & this proposal at least helps with that. Majority seem to agree with this, which will help, but if it remains status quo, there is zero reason to keep a puppet in my opinion.