[Vote] (2-17) Proposal: Dojo's promotion also applying to naval melee units.

[Legen]

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VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 17
Proposal:

Dojo's promotion also applies to naval melee units.

Rationale:

Right now, the UA's part about the birth of a great admiral isn't supported by the Dojo.

A core part of Japan's gameplay is that the Dojo's promotion supports the birth of great military people by improving the melee unit types, who generate the most GPP per attack out of any unit type. Melee units also generate more experience per attack as well, which makes them well suited for the Dojo's yields on leveling. By boosting this type of unit, the Dojo increases the viability of a melee-centric military composition, the most promising for maximizing Japan's UA and Dojo rewards.

However, this rationale doesn't apply for the generation of great admirals, as the Dojo's promotion isn't applied to naval units. When attempting to generate great admirals, you'll be employing a generic navy, which leaves you in no better position even against civs that have no militaristic naval bonuses. And if that enemy civ does have a naval UU and/or combat bonuses, you're in for a pain when pursuing the great admiral part of Japan's UA.

On whether this has any historical justification, it can reference the boarding actions during the Mongol invasions of Japan. The samurai employed boarding actions on Mongol vessels, which caused enough concerns on the Mongol commanders that they chained their own vessels closer together to counter the japanese ships, a decision that proved disastrous in a sea prone to typhoons. These boarding actions played an important role in the evolution of the japanese swords, and rose some of those samurai to fame. Notably, one of them (Takezaki Suenaga) went to commission scrolls recounting the events of this war, including the said boarding actions, and remain as an important source of information about the war.

 

[Legen]

I can sponsor this.

 

[Recursive]

Proposal sponsored by Legen.

 

[Zakuzelo]

It's a little late to ask, but some of the Bushido promotions would be pretty strange on the water. Respect boosts strength against melee and gunpowder units, which in this case would only be when they're embarked, and I'm pretty sure Benevolence doesn't work on ships. I swear there was one which had the unit give a GG bonus to land units, but either I've gone blind or it was removed at some point. Will these be adjusted or changed to function better for ships?

 

[Legen]

I had no plans to change or adapt any specific virtue. Aside from Respect (vs melee/gun, which I admittedly forgot about), all virtues seem to have perfectly functional effects for naval combat. Benevolence should work on naval units just like Medic; if it doesn't, it's unintended.

The GG promotion you are thinking of may be Sincerity, which increases experience from combat by 50%. Great General and Admiral points is defined by the amount of experience generated in combat, though, so promotions that boost experience also boost GG/GA generation as a consequence. You could also be confusing it with one of the Samurai's promotions (100% GG generation from combat).

Respect has often been an odd virtue, people mentioned before how you would expect it to make your mounted/armor units to have a bonus vs other mounted/armor, instead of vs melee/gun. I won't change it when implementing this proposal, but I can make a proposal next session for a more coherent effect for Respect. Like "vs units at full health", so it contrasts to Righteousness's "vs wounded units". But again, I won't change Respect when implementing here, it wasn't part of the proposal.

 

[psparky]

so promotions that boost experience also boost GG/GA generation as a consequence.

No, GG/GA points are not affected by boosts to XP

 

[Rekk]

Benevolence increased the amount healed when they do heal. Naval units can't heal outside friendly borders or without the proper promotion, so they might not benefit from Benevolence outside those situations, either (and it wouldn't be a bug).

 

[Legen]

No, GG/GA points are not affected by boosts to XP

I had tests in an older patch in which XP did. Testing again in this patch, XP isn't affecting. Maybe I faced a bug back then, made a mistake or had a bad install.