[Vote] (2-27) Proposal: Bletchley Park rework

Approval Vote for Proposal #27 (instructions below)


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pineappledan

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Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" if you'd be okay if this proposal was implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if this proposal wasn't implemented.

You can vote for both options, which is equivalent to saying "I'm fine either way", but adds to the required quorum of 10 votes in favor.

All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.

VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 27

Current Bletchley Park:
Requires completion of Rationalism Policy Branch.​
Free Research Lab in the City in which it is built​
All Scientist Specialists gain +1 :c5science: Science.​
Receive 2 or more Spies (based on number of City-States in the game)
+1 levels up all your existing Spies
+15% Spy Resistance in all Cities.
Current National Intelligence Agency:
-1:c5unhappy:Unhappiness from Distress in all Cities​
+100 :c5science: and :c5gold: when you complete a City-State Coup or Election Rigging or kill a foreign Spy in this City (+25 :c5science: and :c5gold: for Spy Events), all scaling with Era.​
Receive 1 or more Spies (based on number of City-States in the game)
+1 levels up all your existing Spies
+15% Spy Resistance in all Cities.

Problem:
The current Bletchley park isn't very strong relative to the other Industrial policy finisher wonders (Broadway and Pentagon). It also has a lot of overlap with the NIA national wonder, except the NIA's instant yield bonus is stronger and more unique than anything that Bletchley Park has. It gives a free building which has already been available for a full era. Overall it's just a pretty terrible wonder, both in power and utility.
It also has somewhat little to do with the real Bletchley Park, which is famous for being one of the first places where computers were used to break German encryption, allowing the British to decode the German enigma cipher, which gave them access to the Germans' diplomatic and military communications

Proposal:
NIA change: Remove the +1 level to all your spies.

New Bletchley Park:
+1 Level to all your Spies​
All Diplomatic units gain Invisibility​
All Naval Melee units gain the Submarine detection promotion.​
NOT PART OF THE PROPOSAL:
Some other ideas for unique bletchley Park wonder abilities that would require new code/DLL sponsorship:
  • Establish Surveillance spy mission gives vision of ALL cities in that empire.
  • Whenever you share Intrigue with another civilization, gain a large sum of :c5science: Science
 
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Stalker0

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I feel that a weak wonder is one of the balance points for Rationalism, it starts strong but its ending is pretty weak. Honestly I could just see removing the wonder and probably few would actually notice, that might be preferable to make it competent and risking overpowering rationalsim.

That said, you can pretty much strip off all of the secondary abilities from NIA if you need to. Honestly if all that was left was this:

Current National Intelligence Agency:
+100 :c5science: and :c5gold: when you complete a City-State Coup or Election Rigging or kill a foreign Spy in this City (+25 :c5science: and :c5gold: for Spy Events), all scaling with Era.

It would still be extremely good.
 

nekokon

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I would prefer to have policy wonder to sync with its tree rather than trying to be more on theme with history. Can always pick another real-world wonder that actually has something to do with realism instead of Bletchley Park so you don't have to worry about historical inaccuracy.
 

pineappledan

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The fact it's 75% similar to the NIA, but worse, is the more glaring issue.

I suggested some other abilities it could potentially have instead of submarine vision, but that requires new code.

Looking at the real, historical Bletchley Park can serve as a jumping off point for ideas for what the wonder might do, but the central issue is it's just a bad wonder and should do something else.
 

axatin

Warlord
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I think it's not good that a building giving a level-up to spies is included in the Rationalism tree. Espionage is one of the options to counter civilizations that use rationalism and are ahead in terms of science, so such a building should be in a different policy tree than Rationalism.


Rationalism, it starts strong but its ending is pretty weak
this should also be addressed, otherwise everyone just chooses the first policies only
 

CppMaster

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I think it's not good that a building giving a level-up to spies is included in the Rationalism tree. Espionage is one of the options to counter civilizations that use rationalism and are ahead in terms of science, so such a building should be in a different policy tree than Rationalism.



this should also be addressed, otherwise everyone just chooses the first policies only
GS from faith are great, though
 

Legen

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I think it's not good that a building giving a level-up to spies is included in the Rationalism tree. Espionage is one of the options to counter civilizations that use rationalism and are ahead in terms of science, so such a building should be in a different policy tree than Rationalism.
It helps defending from spies trying to steal technologies and science yields from you. It actually makes a lot of sense for Rationalism's wonder to focus on defending yourself from foreign spies, just like the Empiricism policy does.
 

nekokon

Prince
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TBH spy contribute so little toward defending your cities from tech steal that it's almost always better to just use them to steal from other civs instead of defending.
If anything, giving science bonuses to counter spy building would be better (double dip on rationalism's need/theme)
 

pineappledan

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I think it's not good that a building giving a level-up to spies is included in the Rationalism tree. Espionage is one of the options to counter civilizations that use rationalism and are ahead in terms of science, so such a building should be in a different policy tree than Rationalism.



this should also be addressed, otherwise everyone just chooses the first policies only
The +1 spy level is already on the wonder. You must be glad the proposal is to remove 2 potential counterspies and 15% spy defence from Bletchley then. It might not be everything you want, but it’s the right direction.
 

Recursive

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Proposal sponsored by pineappledan.
 
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