[Vote] (2-28) Proposal: Add Brute Force promotion to Slingers.

[Ranslee]

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VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 28
Problem:

• Slingers are not really useful against Barbarians.
• We don't want Slingers to take over early Civ vs. Civ combat as Archers used to.
• These two factors combined make the Slinger a generally uninteresting option for early production.

Proposal:

• Add the Brute Force promotion to Slingers.
  • It's an existing promotion that gives +33% Combat Strength VS Barbarians.
    • I assume this would apply to Ranged Combat as well.
  • It's already granted to Warriors, the other combat unit unlocked from turn 0. It feels very consistent and on theme to give it to Slingers as well.
  • Same as with Warriors, it's lost when the unit is upgraded.

Rationale:

• As it stands, the only reason to build them is as precursors for Archer rushes.
• This change would make Slingers a viable early unit choice in more play patterns.

I sponsor this change. (edit: personal stuff came up so I can't commit)

 

[pineappledan]

The slinger has a ranged attack and can therefore clear barbarian camps without risk of retaliation or loss if a new barbarian spontaneously spawns from the camp. They are meant to be used in conjunction with a warrior; the slinger keeps the camp suppressed while your warrior deals the major damage. Adding brute force to both would result in slinger simply replacing warriors outright.

 

[azum4roll]

I don't know if Brute Force works on ranged attack or defense against ranged.

 

[Stalker0]

Yeah my first unit built is always a slinger: Slinger + warrior is superior to 2 warriors.

 

[stii]

Feels like this is probably a difficulty thing. I'd guess on deity the lack of bonus will mean a slinger will take forever to clear a camp, if it even can. But on prince it will be fine.

 

[azum4roll]

It's definitely hard fighting hordes of barbarians without any combat bonus (Authority).

 

[Tekamthi]

I'm generally leaning against this one. The reasoning makes sense on a gameplay level, but I already have trouble conceiving of a 'slinger' as a representation of some historically-based military unit, and this change doesn't help. The addition of the slinger initially struck me as unnecessary, but I've grown to accept it on the basis that there were probably two military roles in prehistoric times: defenders of settlements/home territory, and offensive war/raiding parties. Often these roles were probably performed by the same individuals, but maybe not always.

Anyway I've accepted the slinger as loosely filling the former historical role, and warriors the latter. If adjusted further, I would prefer these units be flavored this way. If slinger needs buff, I'd go for a +CS/RCS boost in friendly territory, or when adjacent to friendly city, etc. Some friendly-proximity bonus would also prevent the relapse into early ranged city destroyers, even if slinger was made a little stronger. I might buy into another abstraction model altogether, if someone else feels they have a better explanation for the historical distinction between these two units -- but in any case I prefer warrior and slinger be as distinct as possible in their abilities.

 

[CppMaster]

Hmm, how about adding Brute Force, but decreasing a bit RCS, so it's not too versatile?

 

[Stalker0]

Hmm, how about adding Brute Force, but decreasing a bit RCS, so it's not too versatile?

Just to show what that would look like:

Currently Slinger: 6 RCS/5 CS
-1 RCS/CS + Brute Force: 5 RCS/4 CS, 6.65 RCS / 5.32 CS vs barbs

That takes your damage against a standard brute barbarian (CS 8) with no bonus penalties from 25.2 to 27

 

[DeAnno]

I kind of like Slingers more as a unit to develop into the long term archer line as they are now. I think if they were more safe against barbs Warriors would be hard to justify.

 

[azum4roll]

I sponsor this.

 

[Recursive]

Proposal sponsored by azum4roll.