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[Vote] (2-47) Proposal: New Follower Belief: Warrior Monks

Approval Vote for Proposal #47 (instructions below)


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pineappledan

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Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" if you'd be okay if this proposal was implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if this proposal wasn't implemented.

You can vote for both options, which is equivalent to saying "I'm fine either way", but adds to the required quorum of 10 votes in favor.

All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.

VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 47

Problem:
- We don't have enough beliefs for enough religions to support larger games

Solution:
- Add more beliefs

Proposal:
New Follower Belief - Martial Arts
Melee and Gun Units trained in this City receive the Warrior Monk Promotion (+20% Defense, +30% XP. +2 :c5faith: faith and +30% Religious Pressure when garrisoned in a City)​
 
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The game currently has 9 founders, 16 followers, 9 enhancers and 9 reformations. In total that's enough for 8 religions, because there is a bottleneck of not enough followers (16/2).

If all the proposals I made this congress passed, the game would have 10/20/10/10 beliefs, enough for 2 more religions.
 
I generally like the idea of adding a follower belief that only really gives you benefits in combination with war. However, when warmongering I find myself constrained by happiness more than anything (though happiness is relatively easy with 3.0). I would therefore be reluctant to take this belief over those that somehow reduce unhappiness (either directly or indirectly by an increase in yields). Perhaps units with the promotion could increase happiness when garrisoned?

To clarify: is the +30% XP bonus applied to the initial XP granted by buildings, policies, etc.?

I can also already imagine a way to abuse this belief if the AI were to pick it: I just need a single city with that belief and then I could simply source most of my melee units from there. After all with Authority I want to use the upgraded variants purchased with gold anyways and there is no restriction regarding which city I spend said gold.
 
Does this retroactively apply to units trained before having the belief?
 
To clarify: is the +30% XP bonus applied to the initial XP granted by buildings, policies, etc.?
Combat XP only. Melee units would get +1 XP from combat, because XP boosts round down in 20% increments so it’s fairly modest. In combination with something like elite forces, which gives 50%, their two excess XP modifiers combine to add more XP. So there’s a possible synergy there to get +80% XP from combat (9XP per hit) with autocracy.
I can also already imagine a way to abuse this belief if the AI were to pick it: I just need a single city with that belief and then I could simply source most of my melee units from there. After all with Authority I want to use the upgraded variants purchased with gold anyways and there is no restriction regarding which city I spend said gold.
Could be combined with orders to ensure morale on those units as well, yes. This is a danger with follower beliefs that can be dislocated from the city itself. We will see if the community has the stomach for it.
Does this retroactively apply to units trained before having the belief?
Yes, it works like a building that gives a promotion, and will be added/removed if the source city converts/deconverts.
 
This feels fairly weak but not so weak that I can't ever see taking it if I really wanted to war and other options were already taken.
 
It's stronger than most belief buildings (+25%), but Churches are still stronger (+40%)
 
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What is the rationale behind the extra religious pressure? Melee units tend to be bad garrisons, since you normally want a ranged unit instead to cover the city's surroundings. It seems that something else would be better on that part of the belief, like +X :c5faith: faith if the city is garrisoned (akin to Authority's Discipline), or having the pressure from garrison being tied to the belief and not discriminate between unit types.

I like the proposal and I'm looking forward to it, I'm just curious why the third part is tied to infantry units.
 
the code for religious pressure for garrisons existed already and was unused. The garrison yields bonus is used on a pantheon right now. It could be moved here if people thought that was a good idea.
 
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The garrison yields bonus is used on a pantheon right now. It could be moved here if people thought that was a good idea.
I think it is a good idea. As it is, this follower belief would be the only one to not provide any yields in any way, which can limit its viability.
 
I think it is a good idea. As it is, this follower belief would be the only one to not provide any yields in any way, which can limit its viability.
Alternatively, you could get faith on unit level up, just not sure if you can easily apply it only to units with that particular promotion.
 
I know I'm being pedantic, but someone may interpret the promotion's description as stating that all four effects are tied to being garrisoned. You may want to rephrase that part.
 
Proposal sponsored by pineappledan.
 
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