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2.8.2.x and the (naval) game experience

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - We The People' started by Fürstbischof, Apr 18, 2021.

  1. Fürstbischof

    Fürstbischof Chieftain

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    Looking at my recent 2.8.2.2 test games I must state that I've begun to disregard (early- and mid-game) naval exploration to my own surprise. Several recent changes combine to make this less interesting and thus less important:
    1 - ships gain max 2 xp for fighting sea animals
    2 - the ai seeks very effectively naval goody huts
    3 - combat vs ai units occasionally give 0 xp at all (might have been a bug)
    4 - the ai is very effective at gaining FFs, mostly Exploration ofc, so that you have to decide carefully which FF to pick, i.e. Exploration FFs won't be your priority, so that you don't have a pressing need to rush naval exploration...

    My naval exploration is now only done by ships which can actually attack sea animals and it ends once 2 of those have been fought, i.e. by reaching the 2 xp threshold.

    In earlier incarnations of the mod my first SOLs and also the Manowar were regularly sent out to explore the map. They were able to acquire a good bunch of xp and other goodies. And only by doing so they were able to get all those promotions which made them the fearsome enemies of the Royal Navy which they needed to be.

    From a gameplay perspective it was a silly endeavour and it was not funny at all. The deeper reason was to build up xp which otherwise could not be gained. Naval units had and have serious problems gaining any xp at all. Even if you employ your major warships regularly for supporting naval bombardment they don't earn any xp - which IMHO should be changed (arty suffers from that, too). And, also, there are so few ships in use by the ai they'd hardly see any naval combat at all pre-WOI. If you've really bad luck you'll only get one measly xp for sinking the pride of your opponent's navy. Seizing prizes happens so rarely it's not even worth mentioning although IRL it was (almost) the usual outcome of a decisive battle. (keep in mind that line tactics effectively ruled this out for the main battle squadrons) In addition to that founding fathers give rarely naval promotions.

    The recent changes, although I do like them, and they fulfil their purpose, have made this problem worse. True, the original Colonization, its remake and the predecessors of WTP have focussed on other aspects of the game. Although, thankfully, a bunch of new ship types have been added, the naval side of WTP shows the same weaknesses as its ancestor CIV4. TBH there's room for improvement. To spice up the naval side of the mod a broader approach is necessary.

    XP and promotions
    * Does the allocation of xp which are gained by army and naval units after battles work as intended?
    * Many naval promotions give bonusses a (well trained) crew should have simply gained by ... sailing. A second look at how gaining 'experience' for ship(crew)s was done by DOANE could give some pointers. (having actual crews might be an option but is not proposed by me)
    * IMHO it's worthwhile to re-visit promotions in general and replace a major part of them with CivEffects once certain "techs" are researched or thresholds passed.
    * Can we use xp as a general modifier for calculating battle strength?

    "tech" tree: inventions & doctrines
    * The planned introduction of a "tech" tree will allow among other things the invention of (improved) telescopes, better guns, improved rigging, and better shipbuilding techniques by introducing better ship types over time. The ships of your navy won't get better stats by suddenly achieving a promotion but by being replaced with better, more modern ships. This would nicely represent the evolutionary change of sailing ships during the Age of Sail.
    * Naval doctrines, represented by "techs", and xp gained by naval combat could be used as a new measure for naval professionalism ("naval tradition") which could hand out free (tactical?) promotions to naval units automatically once a certain threshold and/or date has been passed.
    * More ship types, which would get outdated over time and then replaced by more modern ones, would remove also the fixation (/pressure) on the improval of one specific ship.
    * Ships which are cheaper and faster to build would cause less pain if accidentally lost. Together with the introduction of load capacity this should lead to overall larger fleets and less void maps, thus making naval combat during war times far more interesting.
    * In general, the more ships you have the less you care if one is lost.
    * We might introduce ship types dedicated to exploration which would have a higher speed than regular warships. This would be balanced by the removal of its cargo slot. Yep, I'm looking here at the sloop which regularly shows up way too early in the game and is used by the ai conveniently to pick up all the naval goody huts.

    Sailing
    * During the Age of Sail ships were dependent upon the prevailing winds and could not adhere to invisible lines drawn in the water which are unfortunately enforced by cultural borders. Setting bRivalTerritory to 1 would allow all naval units to enjoy the "Freedom of navigation".
    * Sailing in uncharted waters is hazardous. ATM all ocean plots look and are the same, especially with regard to gameplay effects (besides some defensive bonus in coastal waters). Coastal waters which actually look like shallow waters would be an improvement. Shallow water plots could be placed alone or grouped on the map. Navigation for large ships should be impossible here. Medium and shallow draft ships might encounter reefs and shoals here which could damage or even sink your ship. Shallow water plots might reduce the speed of medium and shallow draft ships, i.e. have a higher movement cost. Once these plots are within your cultural borders the shallow water plots could be passed safely by your ships, being counted as surveyed and properly charted. [If we're able to store the information who has explored a plot we might also be able to store the information if it has already been trespassed, i.e. a water plot would be either unknown, spotted, trespassed or surveyed.]
    * Improved methods of sailing, as represented by the Seaways of DOANE, would be a neat addition.
    * I'm missing a faster option to sail to my other American colonies. Sailing 10+ turns is not funny - and usually circumvented by sailing to Europe/Africa/PR and back to my real target. This option could nonetheless work similar to sailing to Europe/Africa/PR, i.e. by entering an ocean plot and then choosing the target of your travel.

    Naval exploration
    * To make early naval exploration more worthwhile it might be interesting to give the first explorer of a plot bonus exploration points. But then the game needs to track exploration accurately... (e.g. game with 8 players: 8 xp, 7 xp, 6 xp, etc., or: 5 xp, 4 xp, 3 xp, 2 xp and 1 xp for the latter four of them; knowledge of plots gained by exchanging maps should give you ofc only 1 xp) If we go in this direction the cost of exploration FFs might have to be doubled (or tripled).
    * As an additional incentive to conduct early naval exploration we might introduce random quests by the king or merchants to explore certain parts of the map (e.g. find Cipangu, find the Spice Islands, discover the Northwest Passage, etc) or to discover the colonies of a rival European power.
    * Naval goody huts should be refreshed on a regular basis - maybe after entering a new era? The survivor or the drifting ship do fit more to later eras than the early travels of exploration. This would fit fine with the recently proposed shipwreck goody hut, too.
    * To encourage naval exploration of the coasts and the seas in the Americas it should have a direct effect on the "tech" tree and its CivEffects, actually these should be interwoven. [given time I'll write later this week separately to give you an impression how interwoven naval exploration, innovations in navigation, armament and shipbuilding (hull, masts, sails) historically were, especially with regard to trade winds]

    Spotting ships
    * Most of you remember how Pirates handled the spotting of ships. Sure, even if we don't want to copy that, nonetheless the question arises why we always know the owner of the ship which we spotted just a moment ago in 2+ hexes distance. The ownership of a ship should be hidden unless we're in the neighbouring plot.
    * Naval units should always look similar if of the same type. Nation-coloured units would otherwise give the nationality away easily.
    * Can the strength and the promotions of enemy units be hidden from the player? That would remove an important advantage the player has over the ai.

    Piracy
    * Pirates and Privateers should only rob the cargo they're interested in. The remaining cargo would stay on the merchantman which would not(!) be lost.
    * A merchantman could have it's own treasure chest which could be seized by the pirates. Pirates are looking for easy prey and easy money. Just a thought: why not let pirates gather this gold which could be "saved/liberated" once you've defeated them, i.e. sort of a swimming treasure?
    * ATM losing transports (and colonists) can have really nasty effects for your colonies. Lady Luck can be a ***** sometimes. My guess would be that the ai suffers more from this than the player. Maybe we'd bring the historical ransoming of passengers to the game by giving a fixed(?) reward for each type of colonist if these are passengers of the harassed ship.
    * The employment of Privateers, i.e. their ability to capture the cargo of enemy merchantmen, should be restricted to times of war.
    * Fighting piracy is also a no-brainer. Just by looking at the model of the newly spotted ship we know immediately that danger is nearing and can act accordingly. This is a huge advantage for the player. When we revise the naval units after introducing the "tech" tree we should consider adding a broad variety of pirate ships which should look exactly like merchants or minor warships. Sort of invisibility in plain sight. How about the occasional pirate war galleon? ;-)
    * IIRC it's possible to set up patrol areas for warships. If not we'd introduce such a feature as a mission for warships. How about being able to sponsor pirates and assigning them special patrol areas?

    Naval combat
    * Naval units involved in combat should have their sailing speeds compared. The faster ship should get an additional 10% withdrawal chance for each point difference which should allow faster ships to avoid combat on a regular basis especially if attacked by 'battleships'. If possible, both ships should then in the same plot.

    Removal of gamey/silly tactics
    * Naval units, with the notable exception of the whaling ship and, maybe, the fishing boat, should be unable to attack sea animals although they could still be attacked by those.
    * Naval units should not rush to the defense of cities if all other defenders have already been defeated. Especially merchantmen should have a high chance of being captured upon the seizure of the city while warships should have a high chance of escaping to the sea. Escaping ships which encounter blockading ships should incur in that battle a reduced withdrawal chance hampering their chance to escape again.
    * The teleporting of damaged ships during battle should be removed. Escaping to a neighbouring plot should be the usual outcome.
    * If you need a new ship you simply buy it. And - voila - there it is: ready for service. Well, actually a ship needs to be built. Thus you'll have to wait until its completion. As long as a game turn has a length of one year this is not a problem, since the ship will be ready in the next turn. In the later stages of the game the turns happen in shorter intervalls, i.e. we'll have rely on correct historical build times which should automatically be translated into game turns. If you're in a hurry you might consider buying a ship which is already in use. A ship which is actually for sale of course!

    Logs
    * The combat log itself could be improved with some polishing touches.
    * In addition, we need a new set of battle messages to be shown in the message log, which are entirely dedicated to naval warfare.


    You don't need to love my proposals, it's just food for thought although IMHO by moving along these lines we'd achieve an overall better (naval) game experience.

    PS: Did I mention that more ships afloat means also more naval combat?
     
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  2. Ramstormp

    Ramstormp Chieftain

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    LOVE your ideas! Definitely great feast for thought.

    Imagining taking my galleon for a regular half empty cargo run, and the suddenly deciding, hey, lets raise the jolly roger and have some fun!
     
  3. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    @Fürstbischof
    You have made many good observations and have many great idea. :thumbsup:

    Considering the disease we almost 100% agree.
    Considering the cure I share some of your ideas but also have some totally different ones.

    The "Naval Overhaul" and "Military Overhaul" have been discussed I think a dozen times.
    They are however some of the biggest topics on our list and will take time to completely solve.

    We will need to go step by step here. :)

    I now started with "Naval Promotion System", as @Vaeringjar and @Mr. ZorG kind of accidently put the topic on top of my todo-list due to the discussion about "Integration of V's Sub Mod". :)
    While I will work on that it is very likely that we will have as side effects:
    • many small XML changes in general Ship Balancing
    • addtional 1 or 2 further Ships
    • new dll logic for changes for new XP Generation Systems (e.g. for Gather Boats I intend to give them XP by gathering)
    • minor changes in DLL logic for Naval Combat
    • ...
    The rest will come step by step ... :)
    (This mod was not built in a few days or weeks. It grew over more than a decade of continous work of many many modders.)

    You are very welcome to contribute with ideas. :thumbsup:
    (But also please give me some time to create my first draft version to have a better base for discussions and improvements.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  4. Fürstbischof

    Fürstbischof Chieftain

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    @raystuttgart
    The post was actually written several weeks ago. It only saw some minor polishing over the weekend when I read your proposals. I've posted my proposals as a response to your renewed activity. Although it's good to see you back I felt the necessity to 'stop' you from running in the wrong direction. Revising and expanding promotions right now is - sorry - just a waste of time if the major part of that what promotions right now represent will be superfluous once we have the "tech" tree in place which replaces units/ships over time with more evolved units/ships. In such a different 'world' promotions have no place anymore since these are based on xp which is not carried over to newly built units.

    Although you may not like the upcoming "tech" tree it will severely change units and how they function. ATM all units (and their stats) are static; if they earn some xps they can get better stats otherwise happens nothing. OFC this is not yet the reality of WTP but it could be within a year. To save yourself from wasting your precious time you might look for sub-systems which fit nicely to that new reality.

    In the meantime, well, just pick the cures which you like re:navy for implementation. Fortunately, several of my proposals are quite small and can be quickly implemented... ;)
     
  5. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    No sorry I have to correct you here. :)

    You assume here things about dependencies of Promotions that simply do not exist or work that way.
    You also seem to assume me to plan or do things that I have no intention to do.

    Promotions will be 100% untouched by Techs if I do it right - which is my intention.
    (See explanation below.)

    Reason 1:

    Promotions are tied to UnitCombatTypes not UnitTypes and not UnitClassTypes (This is technically a huge difference.)
    Thus I can and will make the Promotions absolutely independent of specific Units.
    Units may change throughout a game by Techs, but UnitCombatTypes will always stay same throughout the game.
    Thus the Promotion Tree itself will also always stay stable (even if some Promotion in the Tree may only be unlocked later).

    Reason 2:
    .When Techs lead to a new generation of Units of the same general kind usually the following applies:
    It can simply be upgraded and the Promotions are not lost. (e.g. an old Type of Caravel is replaced by a new Type of Caravel)

    Reason 3:

    The timeline in Civ4Col is not long enough to have as drastic differences in Units as in e.g Civ4BTS.
    The differences in new Units being unlocked will be noticable but not big enough to have existing old Units become totally worthless.
    Thus even existing Units that will not be upgraded will not become useless and their already given Promotions will still be valuable.

    Everything else would completely ruin the game because Civ4Col does not have as many different Combat Units as Civ4BTS.
    (We can and will maybe unlock a handful of high tier Units, but that is it since we do not have that many Units to chose from and there need to also be all necessary Units available at the start.)

    Who ever said that I do not like the "Techs". :confused:
    It is one of my absolutely most wanted and favourite planned features.

    I have been discussing it and writing concepts for it since RaR.
    Nobody in this forum has ever been brainstorming Techs as much as I did.
    (I wrote gigantic concepts and threads for it in RaR - just check the old forum.)

    My only problem with "Techs" is the effort.
    I would need the commitment of the complete team and several additional supporters to even consider starting it.

    Well, then you have a very different Tech concept in mind than myself ... :eek:

    In my concepts Techs may:

    1. Unlock a new Unit. (But never ever a full UnitCombatType.)
    2. Unlock a new Promotion. (Still not conflicting with my Promotion Overhaul, because the Promotion will simply be available later in game.
    3. Even unlock a completely new feature concept (which would then be totally indendent of Promotions).

    A Tech may unlock a new Unit or give its UnitCombatType some new Promotions.
    But it will never ever change the general functionality or role of a specific Unit.
    (It may make it faster, it may make it stronger, it may give it other appearance ... but generally it is still the same role and funtionality it fills in the game.)

    Please trust me, I am no beginner in Civ4 / Civ4Col modding. :)
    I know when there are dependencies between Systems and when there are none.

    Nothing I will do in the Naval Promotion Overhaul will be a waste of time - at least not for me.
    Nothing I will do in the Naval Promotion Overhaul will cause a problem to the Tech concept - at least not the one I have in mind or can technically imagine.

    Let us fry one fish after the other. :)

    I know that the complete Combat System is one of the weakest aspects in the game.
    The same for the Exploration of the Ocean and many other aspects considering Ships that are unrelated to trade and economy.

    I need time to work on it and have just now started again. :)
    You really simply do not know how bad things were before we e.g. even had Winds and Storms or Goodies on Water or at least a little movement by Wild Animals or Fishing Boats or ...
    Compare the mod now with the situation 12 years ago with Vanilla and then we talk again how much is possible when modders are given enough time. :thumbsup:

    The Naval Promotion System is just the first step. (And it will take me the next 2 months probably.)
    I could have started somewhere else, but I simply started here now, because it was simply put on top of the list by the discussion about "V's Submod".

    It really does not matter where we start as long as we simply start.
    Everything is important and everything takes time to do it properly.

    -----

    The funny thing for me:
    Spoiler :

    I was gone for months and nobody really complained about general game mechanics or even started to change them by himself. :think:
    (I really thought the mod was in incredible good shape and everything was perfect because the forum was so silent ...)

    But now I am back and start working on things again and suddenly everything in the mod needs to be changed all at once by tomorrow. :)
    (Please have some patience. I am just back from 2 months of hospital and rehab and will need some time to work on this.)

    Modding simply takes time. :thumbsup:
    Not only weeks but months and years.
    (Lots of patience and perseverance is needed.)
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
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  6. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

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    I totally agree with you ray:

    In my concepts Techs may:

    1. Unlock a new Unit. (But never ever a full UnitCombatType.)
    2. Unlock a new Promotion. (Still not conflicting with my Promotion Overhaul, because the Promotion will simply be available later in game.
    3. Even unlock a completely new feature concept (which would then be totally indendent of Promotions).

    A Tech may unlock a new Unit or give its UnitCombatType some new Promotions.
    But it will never ever change the general functionality or role of a specific Unit.
    (It may make it faster, it may make it stronger, it may give it other appearance ... but generally it is still the same role and funtionality it fills in the game.)


    That is exactly how I think it should work. A tech tree for me is only to provide some more realism into game and to avoid that all units (and also professions) unlocked already in 1492 when the game starts.

    Just a small example: We had a similar discussion few years ago regarding swords - at the beginning units might only have swords and early versions of firearms - would make game more interestring because swords would become more important and loose importance later on because firearms become important...a tech tree would support such development of goods, weapons, buildings etc. - whatever we want in order to show the technological development between 1492 and ...maybe 1800 or something
     
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  7. Nebula213

    Nebula213 Chieftain

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    Because this topic is about naval.
    What is the current situation with the kings naval troops got he only ship of the line?
    I would like to see some lighter ships for his troops like corvette and frigate and not only ship of the line.
     
  8. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

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    Yes, I think he does. But I like the idea - currently the ships are mostly used to bring his troops to the new world. I assume the king AI does simply not to know what to do with other ships? Maybe the programmers can elaborate on that better.
     
  9. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Basically the current logic of the Royal Fleet in War of Independence (of TAC, RaR and WTP) is simple.
    (And yes, it only has the "Man-O-War" as "One Ships that does all".)

    1. Every Royal Ship tries to land its troops first (if it can not find a good landing spot it will try to fight its way through).
    2. After troops have been landed it will attack all enemy ships in sight so other Royal Ships can land their troops easier
    3. When no more enemy ship are in sight, it will start to bombard enemy harbour cities, so land troops can conquer them more easily

    ----

    This behaviour is dramatically different to Royal Fleet in War of Independence of Vanilla !!!
    We heavily redesigned the logic beause now the Royal Fleet attacks in several waves with much more ships and does not need to sail back to Europe to pick up new Troops.
     
  10. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Prince Supporter

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    Which however would be far more historically realistic - even England, the land with the largest navy in the world, did not have enough ships to ferry over all of the british and german (mostly hessian) soldiers to the 13 colonies in one go.
     
  11. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Yes, but we simply decided to completely change the Vanilla system to the "Waves" already in TAC. :dunno:
    And we also had a long discussion about it 12 years ago ...

    In Vanilla the King was extremely easy to beat if good Naval strategy was used.
    Even normal AI could do it sometimes, which is really not very smart strategically and tactically.

    Every Ship you killed was one less ship that could bring troops in the next rounds.
    Most "Wars of Independence" were already won on the ocean not really on land.

    It was simply no real challenge for really experienced players.
    The current system may not be as realistic but it is much more challenging.

    I still love the "Rolling Waves of Thunder":
    • It is hard to predict at which section of your colonial empire a wave will hit you.
    • Every wave that hits you gets harder and harder and you will really have no chance to win on the ocean.
    • On the ocean you can only reduce the amounts of troops actually landing by destryoing still loaded ships.

    The War of Independence on Land will thus also still be tough and challenging.
    You can only win by absolute war of attrition starting on ocean and ending on land.

    One of the best design decisions from gameplay perspective we ever made in TAC. :)

    And no, it was not my concept although I particpaed in the brainstorming.
    It was designed and mostly implemented by koma13.
    One of the old legends of Civ4Col modding.

    ----

    By the way, the "Waves" was only the first part of the originally much bigger concept for "Rebuild of War of Independence".
    (I had mostly given up on it because "War of Independence" happens so late in game that other concepts were always more important.)

    The other parts e.g. inlcuded giving the King at least 2 distinct types of ships with different roles (one for Transporting, one for Protecting / Hunting Colonial Ships).
    The reason why the other parts were never implemented was lack of feature developers and skilled AI programmers.

    Like always 1000 ideas, 100 plans and just a handful of modders ... :)
    (Sometimes many years later at least a few of these still get implemented though.)

    ----

    Summary:

    It is simply a decision we made 12 years ago in TAC and we never regretted it.
    The War of Independence is now way more challenging and tougher than in Vanilla.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2021
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  12. Nebula213

    Nebula213 Chieftain

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    Fine so i can hope in the future for lighter ships as ship of the line to fight again the king. It would be great.
     
  13. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    There would simply be 2 kinds:
    • one for Bombarding / Transporting Troops (very strong, but very slow and suceptible to attacks from fast ships)
    • one for Protecting / Hunting Colonial Ships (strong, fast and very good in hunting and destroying fast ships)
    So your strategy will need to change:
    You need to try to destroy the Protecting Ships by your strongest Ships, so your fast Ship can break through to sink the Transports.

    But do not count on this to ever by implemented. :sad:
    I can simply promise nothing as only feature modder in the team.
    (There are too many other uncounted concepts that are way higher priority.)
     
  14. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    I have features on my TODO list as well. It's just that I have a hard time reaching them because bugfixes takes priority. I have made features in the past as well, like being able to click the colony plot and change production of that plot.
     
  15. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    You are right. :thumbsup:

    I was simply talking about specialisation as I am the only one of us that specialised into features and balancing.
    (As in terms of our work distribution and expertise.)
     
  16. inaiwae

    inaiwae Chieftain

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    I will try to write more detailed take on this little later, at the moment I'll copy/paste what I posted on discord

    I don't really like that experience can only be gained by combat when it comes to promotions like Navigation, Merchant Vessel, Mobility and such as I don't feel they have anything to do with combat ... at this point I opted for a fairly simple solution (mainly because it was fairly easy to mod it in) ... ships can train experience points for gold in Europe ... one point is 1000 gold ... also, other ideas I had ... ships will get a chance (5,10,20-50%) to gain experience point every turn ... ships will get experience point for every crossing to Europe/Africa/PR ... instead of experience point, certain promotions are directly purchasable in Europe

    training time, hard cap on XP ... I was considering it, and decided against it ... everything in Europe happens instantly, and you can buy as much as you want with money being soft cap ... I like this for XP as well ... you can look at it as if ship has crew and you are hiring more experienced crew for each ship ... also in this instance quantity is going to be better than quality anyway ... I played a few turns last night, leveled up 2 west indiamen I got from Founding Father, cost was 2+5+10+17=34k gold each just to get them 1 more cargo space and 2 more speed (Merchant Vessel I,II, Navigation I,II), I would be much better off to buy more ships ... so it's quite possibly set up just right (EDIT: this is to reflect, that I was planing to make experience point cost incremental)

    AI ... yeah, AI is not going to benefit from this, implementing some XP point gain per turn (or per crossing) with a hard cap would be easy to add to AI units as well ... maybe we can try to track tiles traveled and cargo delivered for each ship and give ships a chance to randomly acquire particular promotion in that field ... chance would increase with tiles traveled, cargo delivered

    please, just keep in mind, I coded this for my own enjoyment of the game, it might not be well balanced and might not be to everyone liking, and I am definitely not pushing for it as a solution, I just wanted to echo the sentiment, that there is more players that are looking into ways how to improve how experience and acquiring promotion works

    experience.JPG
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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  17. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    @inaiwae
    Really nice to see that some new talented modders still start getting creative on their own. :)

    Personal taste and enjoyment by creating something on your own is and will always be the most important reason to mod.

    Have fun modding and keep sharing your ideas and work.
    Maybe it will also inspire others to also become modders ...:assimilate:
     
    inaiwae likes this.
  18. Mr. ZorG

    Mr. ZorG Prince

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    311
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Russia, Vladimir
    in my opinion, this will be an interesting addition to Ray's new promotion system.
     
  19. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Messages:
    4,841
    That's the way it works for everybody. People (team members or otherwise) will rarely code something they don't want in the game. That doesn't mean the outcome won't be enjoyable to other people.

    As for balance in this, I wonder if the ship would have to end turn to do this, meaning not only will it lose a turn, it will also only be able to do it once each turn. I'm not asking you to code this right away. I'm more like adding the idea to the forum for debate.
     
  20. modmod

    modmod Warlord

    Joined:
    May 2, 2021
    Messages:
    121
    About techtree:

    Is somewhere the existing conceptions collected?
    I mean in a similar manner as the first comment were about a broad list of features.

    Would be long untill I find them scattered in old RAR topics. :shifty:
    But without know them there is a chance somebody either find out the same, or fall into the same pits. :rolleyes:
     

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