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2 Pagoda's 2 Stupas

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by LackingGravitas, Jun 11, 2012.

  1. LackingGravitas

    LackingGravitas Chieftain

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    Ok so I'm a novice, I play this game for the fun of seeing the pretty colours and massive, wealthy cities, I don't think about strategy at all really.
    But,
    I do wish to learn and to improve my game, and one the things I've never been able to do is complete this UHG, I can't found enough cities, build enough temples/missionaries and I then can't build the damn things in time anyway. Soooo, I'm asking for pointers as how too do this, as well as general China strategy and indeed strategy in general. Hmm.
     
  2. strijder20

    strijder20 Wallowing in irony

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    Hello,

    You might be interested in this thread. It's not about UHV, but it gives good Chinese strategy advise.

    The key is also founding your cities in the right locations. One is Hanoi (alternatives are possible), three on the coast, one in the mainland, one in Manchuria, one near/on the Beijing spot and the Korean capital makes 8.

    This page also has a few city-founding proposals on it.

    It's definitely a hard UHV, I've never been able to complete it before either.
     
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Most important question: from which start? It's optimized for the 3000 BC scenario, so I'll give some hints for that:

    1) I don't like to attack other civs, so I want to settle all 8 cities myself. In this case, don't bother with ideal cities, and found Xi'an / Beijing / Luoyang / Haojing / Hangzhou as soon as possible. I cover the rest with Taibei, Chengdu and Shenyang (conquer from barbs).

    2) Use food to your advantage, i.e. whip and hire scientists. The Chinese UB allows three scientists and your food rich cities should use that.

    3) Your other source of production is chopping forests. Decide early on where to build your cathedrals and leave 2-3 forests for these cities. You can also chop to rush temples in your later cities too.

    4) The most important techs in the beginning are Animal Husbandry, The Wheel, Bronze Working, Masonry and Writing. Then beeline Currency and Construction. Afterwards you can beeline Music to get as much time as possible for the cathedrals. Compass can be bulbed by a great scientist as long as you can't research Philosophy, by the way (provided you already have Alphabet and Mathematics).

    5) Exploring west to trade techs with Europe is obvious.
     
  4. tony92def

    tony92def Chieftain

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    Is confusianism removed in the next version? if yes that's good.
     
  5. Pavel Chichikov

    Pavel Chichikov Chieftain

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    You think that's bad, try attemping the Korean UHV on Marathon/Emperor, China collapsed and got taken over by barbs; 6 horse archers every couple of turns plus waves of Swordsmen from the southern Chinese cities.
    Try juggling barb defense, city conquest, tiny stability map, fending off Japanese pirates, keeping up with tech and building Cathedrals at the same time.
    And I imagine this is about as good as the Korean start gets. Actually quite a fun Civ to play.
    Maybe the AI should start off with some extra Swordsmen though, Korea never survives long after it's birth in my games.
     
  6. Caesar Augustus

    Caesar Augustus Chieftain

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    Okay, so I haven't technically won through yet, but I've got a game going where I've met the first 2 UHV goals, have established a solid tech lead and plenty of incoming GPs so the 3rd goal should come easily enough. Here's what I've learned:

    1) The key to a solid game as China is having a very strong start. If you're much behind technologically by the time the Greeks and Indians spawn, it's pretty much already too late.

    2) Xi'an is not a worthwhile capital city. You'll definitely be better off with some other location. I would suggest Luoyang 2E of the starting spot.

    3) Whatever spot you choose for your capital, you need to get to 4 cities pronto. My build order was Worker Worker Worker Settler Settler, chopping any forest I could get my hands on. My second city built another Settler the same way, and my 3rd got me another Worker. There's really nothing else worth building except a few warriors (to avoid the defenseless city happiness penalty) until you're building Taixues.

    4) Build your first couple of cities close enough to your capital/resources that you can build a farm/pasture before it encompasses its BFC. This is the main reason I don't suggest Haojing as one of your earliest few cities; it won't contribute that much before cultural expansion, and even then requires Fishing and Calendar before it becomes a good city.

    5) Tech goes Bronze Working - Animal Husbandry - Writing - Mathematics. Depending on whether or not you get a decent amount of gold from goody huts, you can possibly fit Fishing, The Wheel, and/or Hunting in between Writing and Mathematics. Bulb Alphabet. Next priorities should be Construction, Calendar, and Currency. I might have been fortunate with tech trades but I found I had plenty of time to get Music, so I snagged Metal Casting and Machinery before I went up that route.

    6) Hanoi! War Elephants are just about necessary for dealing with the Mongols, and Hanoi is the best way to get them. You could also just vassalize Khmer but why pass up a great city site that you'll be heavily culture-pressing anyway?

    7) You should not be whipping much at all, actually. Most reasonable city locations have enough production and forests to chop to get the necessary buildings up and running. You might want to do a little whipping in south China and obviously Taiwan but don't get out of hand. Big cities with lots of specialists are better even if they aren't totally up-to-date infrastructurally.
     
  7. Caesar Augustus

    Caesar Augustus Chieftain

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    Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, I remember somebody else mentioning, and I can confirm, that the golden age from 2/3 UHVs is not counting toward UHV 4. And also, is there some way of deciding which specific GPs are used to start a Golden Age? I got the free Great Artist from Patronage and I'd like to save him since I don't think I'll be spawning many more of his type (my culture doesn't really require it); I'm worried that I'll end up with a lot of Scientists/Merchants/Priests and won't be able to fulfill the last UHV due to a lack of diversity.
     
  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    The 2/3 golden age does count, so you need to start 3 golden ages on your own.
     
  9. Caesar Augustus

    Caesar Augustus Chieftain

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    If so, it doesn't display as such on the victory page unless you've fixed it in the last week or so.
     
  10. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    I think I've said that already - it's only displayed after the GA is finished. Since there's no way how the game could tell apart how the GA was started (it only counts the turns you're in one), I don't see why it shouldn't be displayed.
     
  11. Caesar Augustus

    Caesar Augustus Chieftain

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    I thought for sure I waited until after the GA ended to check again, but I guess I was mistaken. Sorry for the bother, then.
     
  12. LackingGravitas

    LackingGravitas Chieftain

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    Aha, I'd just started reading Tomorrows Dawn's story before you linked it, it's very helpful, esp for the city sites
    Well I did it, but on Viceroy/Marathon so I don't know if that counts xD
    Although, now I'm having trouble with the 4 golden ages. I've definately had 2 GP gold ages, plus the historical one, but it only says I've had one...the 2/3 historical requirements one
    just eed to build the olympic park now
    I'm in 1.81
     
  13. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    You cannot chain the GAs together, otherwise they won't count.
    Wait for one to end, and then pop your new GA on the following turn.
     
  14. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Yes, you can chain GAs together. It counts as one GA when the full number of turns of one GA has passed.
     
  15. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    Oh? It's been changed?
    LackingGravitas is on 1.81 though,
    so currently, no GA-chaining applies to that version.
     
  16. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    No, it has always worked this way.
     
  17. LackingGravitas

    LackingGravitas Chieftain

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    I didn't chain them, I had one at around 600AD, the other 1600AD, but the only goldenage that made the timer tick up was the one I got from completeing the 2/3 thing
    I'll reload the save and see if that's fixed it, and if it doesn't I'll see if I win after the Olympic park one
    Oh, I take it I have to have completed 4 golden ages by 1800? So I complete the Olympic Park in 1799 I won't get the win? xD (it's not likely to happen, but just so I know)
     
  18. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    Yes, you have to complete a golden age for it to count. The goal text implies that by using the phrase "experience" instead of "start" (plus, it's ambiguous if triggering a GA during another would count as "starting" it).
     
  19. killerkebab

    killerkebab Chieftain

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    Does that mean each individual golden age has to "end", Leoreth? Or could the player save up say 10GPs and dump them all into golden ages at the same time?

    Also, "Lacking Gravitas"? Are you by any chance a fan of Iain M. Banks' Culture series? ;)
     
  20. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    The game just checks if the amount of turns equal to four golden ages has passed (i.e. on normal speed, when you finish your 32nd golden age turn). If you have them separately, or start a huge golden age that lasts 32 turns, or start one golden age and then continue it before it's over really doesn't matter at all.

    And I knew the name was familiar from somewhere! Banks has been recommended to me a while ago and I really need to get to reading it.
     

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