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2 Types of Farms: Yes, it can be done!

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Creation & Customization' started by Colonel Kraken, Mar 27, 2005.

  1. Colonel Kraken

    Colonel Kraken Deity

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    This has been a wish of mine for a very long time, and I know a wish of many of you as well. I could never figure out how to use the existing limitations of the game to have workers make another type of Irrigation or Farms later in the game.

    Now, we all know that no more worker actions can be added, but what about modifying an existing one? How would one accomplish this? Please forgive me if some of you veteran mod and scenario makers have already figured this out and/or implemented it in some of your awesome mods that are out there, but I just had to tell you guys what I found because I think it's so cool.

    First of all, this would only work in a scenario. You'll see why later.

    Secondly, you have to choose an overlay terrain to discard. Marsh? (Don't know if it works for Marsh, yet, but it should) Jungle? Your choice.

    Thirdly, you have to do some PCX editing. :sad:

    How many of you use the Pla(n)t Forest worker action? Hmm . . . didn't see many hands, not even the AI's hand. Thought so. Ok. This function replaces Plant Forest!

    Here's how it works:

    Take your sacrificed terrain and turn it into Forest. I used Jungle. All Forest stats were moved to Jungle (in the editor). The Jungle terrain pcx (found in grassland forest.pcx) was turned into forest. Forest terrain was turned into Farms (also turn plains forests.pcx into farmland)! You'll also have to modify Tundra Forests. This could prove sticky (as the AI/Player will still be able to plant forest (Farms) on Tundra), but some scenarios might not take advantage of Tundra terrain anyway.

    The below picture is grassland forest.pcx. The part that now has Forest terrain used to have Jungle terrain. The Farms are where Forest was.


    I also had to change the graphic for the Plant Forest action. I found a hand-dandy one left over from vanilla Civ 3. (On the right the "old" Plant Forest. On the left the "new" Plant Farmland.)


    You also need to change the button's description. That's found in the Text folder: "labels.txt". Find the entry for "Pla(n)t Forest" and change it. I changed it to "Pla(n)t Farms" (because I can still use the keyboard shortcut [n] to make farmland!) That'll be the text displayed when rolling the mouse over our new Farmland button.

    So, now in the editor, you change the name of Forest terrain to Farmland. Change it's stats. You can modify Food, Shields, and Commerce. Forest will overlay base terrain and "take over" the base terrain stats. That means that Grassland with food 2 will be erased and start over with whatever stat you put in for Farmland (Forest). I chose 6 food (just messing around for now). Then, of course, any bonus resources you feel should stay when planting Farms (Wheat, etc.) will add their bonus. Make sure you select all allowable resources for Farms (Forest).

    Change the name of the worker job "Plant Forest" in the editor to "Farm" or whatever and change the "Order" name to "Farm" or however you wish to name it.

    Keep in mind that your new farms will not be able to be planted on Hills, Floodplains, etc. because it's hardcoded what terrain can have Forests (at least I think it is). But that's cool anyway. Only good producing farms can be produced on certain types of terrain. So, you'll have Irrigation on some terrain and Farmland on others.

    Why do I say you can only use this in a scenario? Well, when a random map is generated, the computer still thinks your cool new farmland is forest terrain. You'll see farms all over the map where forests would be. So, you have to make your own map, removing all the farms, using Jungle to make Forests (Jungle is your new Forest terrain). Voi la. All new map. You won't have any Jungle, but who likes Jungle terrain anyway? Again, not many hands.

    Ok, so that's about it. I apologize for stating this in such a way as to assume you already know quite a bit about making scenarios and modifying things. I leave it to the rest of you to work out the details. I haven't tested to see how the AI uses this. Time will tell . . .

    Below are a couple of in-game screenshots.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Colonel Kraken

    Colonel Kraken Deity

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    The cool thing with this idea is you're not limited to adding Farmland. Add any other type of overlay you wish that changes Food, Shields, or Commerce. Want 2 types of Mines? No problem! Want a shopping center that adds commerce for your mod? No probem! There really are quite a few possibilities here.
     
  3. Goldflash

    Goldflash Grumpy Old Man

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    OMG! KUDOS TO YOU, Colonel!
     
  4. mrtn

    mrtn Shaven not stirred

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    Yeah, this is a cool idea :), similar to what I've made in my mod. I've renamed desert/floodplain to wasteland/darkland, and renamed plains to desert. Hm, just realised that I should maybe allow irrigation in desert, and make some nice gfx for that? *goes away thinking hard*
     
  5. Camber

    Camber Resident Family Therapist

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    You should also note that forest is one of the types of terrain that allows a landmark variation. So you can have LM Forest be "real" forest and regular forest be Farm. When making you scenario map, just put in all forest as LM Forest, and you won't need to eliminate Jungle or Mashland from your terrain types.

    In a mod I'm creating, Heavy Gas is replacing LM Forest, and this terrain is covering the surface of Venus. The tech for "harvesting" this gas (in order to terraform Venus) doesn't come until the late future era (Terraforming), which is also when I allow the worker action for planting forest (to further terraform Venus and Mars, because I give Forest overlays a Food value of 2).

    As Colonel Kraken said, the possibilities are endless. I just wish there was still another LM overlay I could mess around with, so that I could have Hydroponic farms in addition to forest, heavy gas, jungle, and marsh. But as you said, Jungle and Marsh are both unfun (to use the Civ4 team's terms) game elements, so it doesn't hurt to amalgamize them.

    Here is a graphic for Hydroponic Farms if anyone is looking:

    Hydroponics by bhiita: http://cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ3/viewtopic.php?t=6149

    EDIT: I just reread my post and realized that I sounded here like I had already known what Colonel Kraken is sharing here. Actually, I hadn't ever thought of turning the forest.pcx into an irrigation graphic, and I'm glad you shared this. It has opened up a lot of possibilities. I'll probably use it, so thanks for sharing.
     
  6. Neomega

    Neomega Deity

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    It certainly is cool... but has the unfortunate side effect of the farms are now indestructable... unless workers come and "chop it down".

    It has been considered as perhaps to add urban terrain, but same little letdown... indestructable suburbs...
     
  7. Sir Donald III

    Sir Donald III Emperor

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    Not if you disable the "Plant Forest" Worker Action for Tundra... (The Worker Job dialogue in the Terrain page of the Editor, set from Plant Forest to None.)

    EDIT: It might be hardcoded against "foresting" hills at least the terrain overlay, but given that I was able to irrigate hills in an earlier experiment, I'm not so sure it can't be done. More likely what would happen is that you would "level" the hill into a Grassland to make room for the "Forest". Could be good for that "Suburbs" idea, though...

    Incidentally, you could also disable the "Clear Forests" job from the farms so as to disallow people from chopping them down. The downside to that is that you can't naturally pillage them either. So just keep the "Clear Forests" on the farms and add that Worker Job to all Units that can pillage and make the cost 1.

    The only problem now is that you can't get shields from "Forests" as I believe it is hardcoded into the "Clear Forest" Job. (Which makes "pillaging" "Farms" quite messy.)

    Oh, and you probably shouldn't have natural Marsh on such a map either, since it uses the same "Clear Wetlands" job. Or you could just disable the job for that terrain.
     
  8. Camber

    Camber Resident Family Therapist

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    Clear Forest wouldn't work for pillaging unfortunately. In all the games where I've tried, I cannot get workers to clear forests within another player's territory--only in my own, or unowned territory.

    I'm also very certain that forests can't be placed on Hills. I can't remember the exact reason, but you could try. Goto the Terrain tab in the editor, and try to add the Plant Forest worker action on Hills. That would be my best guess for making it work. But every time I've tried to add Forest on top of Hills while editing the map, it has turned the Hills underneath the forest into Grassland as the base terrain.

    Incidently, the Rhye's of Civilization mod uses a terrain tileset that has LM Forest renamed "Forest Hills." The graphic looks like a forest-covered hill. But when you chop the forest, you are left with Grassland. This is, of course, because the graphic is a LM Forest, and the default base terrain for Forest is Grassland unless otherwise specified. Good luck on this problem, I'm not sure what could be done to make Hills as a base terrain option.
     
  9. Colonel Kraken

    Colonel Kraken Deity

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    No, thank you for sharing your great ideas and findings as well. :)

    Hmm . . . I haven't checked, but perhaps Hills terrain has the possibility of selecting the worker action "Plant Forest". If so, we'd be able to do this. EDIT: Oops. I see Camber has already suggested this in the above post.

    Oh, duh! Why didn't I think of this? Of course we can use LM Forest as the actual Forest because we're doing this on a scenario map. Ok, cool. I'll have to tinker with this.
    Awesome suggestion! I knew there had to be a way.

    This is precisely what can be done. I have changed the button description of chop forest (or whatever it's called) to Remove Farmland. A little bit of a pain, but you could bring workers with your invading force if you really wanted to be able to affect the enemy in this way. Although, for me, this is a very minor "problem".

    Hey, thanks guys. That's why I posted this here because I knew the lot of you would be able to make this suggestion even better! Keep it coming. What I'll do is modify the first post to reflect the information/suggestions change. Then, what I could do is post a Tutorial, although I'm not so sure I want to go through all that work. Well, anyway, thanks.


    --CK
     
  10. Camber

    Camber Resident Family Therapist

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    Rather than relying on workers, you can give the "remove farmland" worker action to all pillage-enabled units. While you are at it, give them 300 worker strength so it doesn't take so long for them to accomplish the deed.
     
  11. WildWeazel

    WildWeazel -- Turns to Completion

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    This is great. I thought of something similar for my urban warfare scenario (impassable to wheeled "blockade" terrain, but it never occured to me to use for tile bonuses.
    This should probably be in the tutorials section.
     
  12. mrtn

    mrtn Shaven not stirred

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    Camber, that's a good idea, but I don't think that the AI would utilize it. :(
     
  13. Thorgrimm

    Thorgrimm Senior Elder

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    Colonel, that is a very good thing to share. I probably should have mentioned that ability, as I had used that exact procedure to let the Martians plant The Red Weed in my War of the Worlds mod. It works very well. Also as Camber had pointed out make use of the LM terrain to replace the forest. As then the new Irrigation planting looks natural.



    Cheers Thorgrimm
     
  14. Madeira

    Madeira Emperor

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    This is a very cool idea!
    Concerning the impossibility of pillaging the farmland, how about the opposite? Make irrigation the special terrain that cant be pillaged, then make farmland the terrain improvement. I think it will be easier to accept, irrigations are just water cannals on the ground and stuff right? Farms are something more destructable by raiders/troops.

    So your workers could irrigate the allowed terrain types and that would be permanent, and later as you research some tech, they would be able to create farms (terrain improvement) on the irrigated terrain only.

    But sadly this wouldnt work very well for the flood plains, unless you make them a terrain good enough not to require irrigation, and only with the development of farms will grassland terrains be better for food than flood plains, or something.
     
  15. mrtn

    mrtn Shaven not stirred

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    Irrigation canals are very much pillageable.
     
  16. Colonel Kraken

    Colonel Kraken Deity

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    Yes, I had considered this as well.

    This is great. Thanks everyone for the wonderful feedback. :)
     
  17. WildWeazel

    WildWeazel -- Turns to Completion

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    @Madeira: Flood plain's dont need irrigation, that's why the Egyptians lived along the Nile's banks. But you could still allow it to be farmed, just give it an irrigation value too.
    edit: CK, could you post that PCX? :D
     
  18. Camber

    Camber Resident Family Therapist

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    I request that you post the Farming button that you used also. Even if it did come from an older version, many of us still don't have it. Thanks!
     
  19. WildWeazel

    WildWeazel -- Turns to Completion

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    Oh btw, if you made a LMForests version please post that one. Less C&Ping for the rest of us :lol:
     
  20. Colonel Kraken

    Colonel Kraken Deity

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    Why wouldn't you have it? You have to have the original Civ3 in order to use Conquests, etc. Just look in Civ III\Art\can't remember this folder.

    Oh, I see, make me do all the work. :p

    One thing I found that's a bummer is you will no longer have Tundra Pine Forests (well, you can put forest there, but it won't be the snow covered pines). Also, using LM Forests, for some reason the editor will never use the Pine Forest parts. Does anyone know why that is?
     

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