(2-WD) Add an environmental vision to VP

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gwennog

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In a few words add reforestation and global warming to VP.
I think these two components are lacking in a game whose goal is to lead civilizations from antiquity to the anthropocene and could add an interesting late-game challenge.
This is certainly a lot of development for the Global Warming part, but a fossil energy/renewable energy balance could be found through the buildings, taking into account the populations. Motions to World Congress could be put in place.

Relevant links for this discussion:

Reforestation mod for VP - https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/reforestation-for-vp.657406/
Global Warming mod - https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=198149168 and https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=404546535
National Parks mod - https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/national-parks.645248/
 
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For this proposal to gain traction you'll need a lot more details.

What are the mechanisms you're suggesting to add? What are the new Congress motions you're suggesting? How are you thinking of implementing the energy divide?
 
For this proposal to gain traction you'll need a lot more details.

What are the mechanisms you're suggesting to add? What are the new Congress motions you're suggesting? How are you thinking of implementing the energy divide?
Yeah, this proposal is too vague. I smell veto.
You are right, I was thinking of proposing to add the global warming mod by modifying it a little but it is not complete enough. The civ 6 version seems interesting but is it welcome to implement a civ 6 vision in VP?
In any case, in my opinion, it would be necessary to go through the addition of an additional resource, electricity or energy, and to look at how it is produced at the scale of each city and worldwide. The fossil/renewable electricity ratio weighted by the population would give an index linked to a chance of local or planetary events (rising waters, disappearance of crops, etc.). The electricity resource would be necessary for the operation of all modern buildings and produced by the various power stations.
The motions at the World Congress would relate to reductions in the use of fossil fuels (or increases).

In fact it is rather a mod mod that I propose, it has no place in the state in the VP Congress. A veto would make sense.

Maybe just add Reforestation which is really interesting and logical in my VP vision.
 
I would like to see this in some way too, especially now that there's a desire to make the games last longer. The problem with gamifying global warming is that the immediate losers are not necessarily the biggest contributors. So if I'm a tundra civ and my rival is a tropical one settled around islands, well it kinda makes sense to warm the globe. They'll be affected more by rising waters, and I don't care what happens after I win the game anyway.
Reforestation and @pineappledan 's national parks would be easier to include though, maybe you could detail your proposal around that.
 
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As for Global Warming, you definitely can't rise the sea level like in Civ VI because of graphical limitation.
A couple of global warming-themed events is doable, but that would make late game an event fest mess. Spy mechanic is already leverage events stuff.

I like the electricity & energy part. We can have a new mechanic, Electricity supply. But you have to make it local to the city and nearby cities only.
Electricity supply can only be generated by power plants and increased by other energy-related buildings. Essentially similar like Military supply generated and increased by military buildings.
Make almost all buildings above Industrial Era requires Electricity supply.

VP already have different types of power plant, and you could add more like Geothermal, Coal, Oil, and Natural Gas.
  • Geothermal Plant requires you to have a mountain in the workable city plot;
  • Coal Plant and Oil Plant requires a Coal resource and an Oil resource, respectively;
  • As for Natural Gas, I don't know how this would work.
Make the fossil-based plants easier, cheaper, and earlier to build.

This could be expanded so much more, and I'm down for it (if it's possible).
 
Yeah an energy mechanic would help a lot in making the later eras distinct. I remember some power/electricity/energy mods on workshop (probably on CFC too), you can start by converting them to VP, test and polish your ideas along the way.
 
Having Electricity as a Strategic Resource necessary for the most powerful endgame buildings is something that is already present in the SuperPower mod, so you can look that way if you need.

It is something I would like to implement in my tweaks one day, for it would provide a good limiter to endgame yield bloat.
 
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This is a great idea! but OP is not a proper proposal in its current form.

I'd include not just reforestation but treegrowth in any environment-related add-on... Add in some forest fire mechanism to balance out the tree spawns, maybe.

Also, if we could get some weather at sea, just even one art model for "storm clouds" or soemthing similar to create a feature that spawns and despawns, & that affects vision and/or movement, we might really add some depth to the naval game.

All this said, I think these kind of things live best as modmod.
 
Having Electricity as a Strategic Resource necessary for the most powerful endgame buildings is something that is already present in the SuperPower mod, so you can look that way if you need.

It is something I would like to implement in my tweaks one day, for it would provide a good limiter to endgame yield bloat.
I'm not a fan of electricity as a strategic resource. That means you can use it globally across the empire, even far away cities. That's not how energy generation works.
I rather want electricity acting as a local supply stuff, similar like military supply but make it local per city.

Every city has a limited electricity supply cap, which means you could only build a limited amount of buildings at a given time. But you can increase it through buildings and techs, just like military supply goes increase through population and military buildings.
 
This could be expanded so much more, and I'm down for it (if it's possible).
Yeah an energy mechanic would help a lot in making the later eras distinct. I remember some power/electricity/energy mods on workshop (probably on CFC too), you can start by converting them to VP, test and polish your ideas along the way.
It is something I would like to implement in my tweaks one day, for it would provide a good limiter to endgame yield bloat.
The idea is really interesting to dig all the more that several people seem to go in this direction. But personally I don't feel like being a "leader" in a project like that, not enough time and especially not a sharp enough vision of the VP mechanisms that other people present on the forum may have.
But if someone starts the project, I will participate with great pleasure.
 
VP already have different types of power plant, and you could add more like Geothermal, Coal, Oil, and Natural Gas.
  • Geothermal Plant requires you to have a mountain in the workable city plot;
  • Coal Plant and Oil Plant requires a Coal resource and an Oil resource, respectively;
  • As for Natural Gas, I don't know how this would work.
Make the fossil-based plants easier, cheaper, and earlier to build.
Also, power plants can be complementing each other, not mutually exclusive. So you can stack electricity supply in one city, turning it into a production powerhouse. Power plant abilities must be reworked as well.
Of course, your empire must have some sort of penalties if you build a fossil-based plant.

This would need a whole lot of effort of making the mechanic, UI changes, and balancing stuff.
I just want to know if it's possible to have a mechanic like that with DLL mod. Because that's the only thing that matters.
 
@pineappledan's national parks mod is based on the conceit that you can't grow back the forests that you chop down, causing opportunity cost analysis. It doesn't work if you can just regrow your forests.
By balancing the contribution of National Parks it should be possible. Being able to replant anyway gives a boost to all forest and jungle improvements, of course.
 
As for Global Warming, you definitely can't rise the sea level like in Civ VI because of graphical limitation.
You could do something like "once more than half the civs research tech X, -1 yield on certain terrain". aka show that terrain is getting worse due to global warming. Something like that.
 
@pineappledan's national parks mod is based on the conceit that you can't grow back the forests that you chop down, causing opportunity cost analysis. It doesn't work if you can just regrow your forests.
Would it be possible to do somehow like Civ 6, where replanted forest are slightly weaker than originals, and couldn't receive national parks ? It's already the case IRL, replanted forests are more like plantation where all trees are aligned, and would definitely not qualify for national parks. Indeed, most of the time they only serve as a new source of wood => building material.
 
For a more precise proposition :
Planted forests do not benefit from zoos (+1 culture and tourism) and can't recieve national parks.
You could still built them for hammers in hill-starved cities, but you would still have to keep forests all game long if you want to make tourism.
Also, since forests can only be planted in the industrial era (as of the reforestation mod), zoos are already online so you immediatly feel the lack of culture and tourism.
 
Would it be possible to do somehow like Civ 6, where replanted forest are slightly weaker than originals, and couldn't receive national parks ? It's already the case IRL, replanted forests are more like plantation where all trees are aligned, and would definitely not qualify for national parks. Indeed, most of the time they only serve as a new source of wood => building material.
I do not agree with this idea. The best example in France is the Landes forest in Aquitaine which is mainly a planted forest but also an important place of tourism on the Atlantic coast. A large part is also a Regional Park (equivalent to the National Park in France)
 
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