2011 MLB Thread

[El Justo]

ok now is probably as good a time as any other to publicly acknowledge that phils bench guy Ben Francisco will not hit 25 homers this year there is no 'shoe' in my direct vicinity although if there was, i would surely make an attempt to 'eat' it so with that said, how 'bout John Mayberry, Jr? the kid is playing himself into an everyday gig in LF with ibañez hurting. today's daily mentioned that mayberry may continue to start in left even when raul is healthy.

 

[classical_hero]

I wonder where Owen has gone. It must be depressing watching his team now.

 

[El Justo]

that might be the most keen observation i've read all morning thanks for sharing that

 

[illram]

Giants still have all of September to limp into the playoffs. Admittedly AZ looks like the better team at this point.

On that note, I really like what the new Blue Jays GM is doing. Trading for Rasmus, finding Bautista, (Sox scouted him and passed on him) shedding Aaron Hill and picking up Kelly Johnson who to me is the better player (and he is likely going to be a lot cheaper), plus all the other moves they have made... if I were a Jays fan I would like what I was seeing.

 

[El Justo]

they sure are getting a lot of miles out of carlos beltran lately, eh? i'll repeat this: he is a waste of flesh and apparently a prospect, too, as far as the giants are concerned.

 

[downtown]

it sure is depressing watching mine! Too bad every single one of our good position players is hurt.

 

[illram]

Season is not over yet, if they can make the playoffs we will see if Beltran winds up helping. But yeah, trading for a guy who goes right to the DL is a little disappointing.

I never thought Beltran was the answer to all of their problems but he is better than nothing and the Giants have got their pitching more or less sorted for the next few years anyway. Sabean had to make a move.

The rash of injuries is really astounding, their lineup and their bullpen have basically been gutted.

 

[El Justo]

i can not underscore how pleased i am that the phillies went after pence rather than beltran. slow bat, banged up, and in a K year. awful. let's see which dope pays him a 9 figure deal this off-season.

 

[illram]

Everyone went after Pence. Giants did not have the haul the Astros wanted. Remember Pence cost 4 prospects (2 top ones), Beltran cost one.

Obviously the Giants would have preferred Pence over Beltran, but they didn't have the goods. I don't think this is a case of the Phillies outmaneuvering anyone, or being smarter, as much as it is simply that the Phillies had the right pieces and were willing to part with them.

 

[El Justo]

those prospects the phils sent the astros were not A+ by any stretch. both were at the bottom of the top 100 MLB prospects iirc (bottom 25% iirc). cosart is ok but not even the best SP prospect in the philly system. singleton might project to be a starting 1B someday. but it's a crapshoot like a lot of things with minor league guys. i guess what i'm getting at is that the giants could have thrown another plus prospect into the deal and they could have at least matched up to what the phils put forward. bottom line is that it will be incredible if any one of the prospects philly sent to houston ever becomes an all star. the same can be said about many deadline deals like this. look at the garbage RAM gave to toronto for the best pitcher in the planet. Grand Larceny IMO

 

[Theige]

i can not underscore how pleased i am that the phillies went after pence rather than beltran. slow bat, banged up, and in a K year. awful. let's see which dope pays him a 9 figure deal this off-season.

The funny thing is Beltran has been a bit better than Pence this year and Pence has been pretty lucky, with a .364 BABIP

 

[El Justo]

beltran is done, bro. i don't fully buy into sabremetrics. for some things it's ok but not to compare players like that. hell, i would take pence over beltran seven ways til sunday.

 

[Theige]

beltran is done, bro. i don't fully buy into sabremetrics. for some things it's ok but not to compare players like that. hell, i would take pence over beltran seven ways til sunday.

You don't even have to use sabermetrics to show Beltran has been better.

His OBP and SLG% are both higher... unless you consider those stats sabermetrics

He also walks more, strikes out less, plays better defense, and has more power

Beltran is done? Either you're completely out of your mind, or you actually haven't looked at the statistics at all

 

[Darkness]

It's been fairly depressing to watch the Cardinals lately. They've just collapsed since the last Brewers series, which in all likelihood clinched the NL central for Milwaukee...

You don't even have to use sabermetrics to show Beltran has been better.

His OBP and SLG% are both higher... unless you consider those stats sabermetrics

He also walks more, strikes out less, plays better defense, and has more power

Beltran is done? Either you're completely out of your mind, or you actually haven't looked at the statistics at all

It's neither of those things. It's just that Pence plays for the Phillies, which automatically makes him a better player than Beltran in El J's eyes...

 

[El Justo]

whatever darkness. ask scouts who they like better and i would bet a mortgage payment that most would say pence is better, right now. beltran is not better in the field. he had to be moved from CF because of decreased range from the bum knee. beltran's and pence's no's are similar in terms of slg%, hrs, rbi's etc. pence is clearly a better baserunner, has a better arm, isn't banged up, and is locked up for a few more years. couple that with the fact that pence is several yrs younger and it's a no-brainer. say what you will about me pimping phillies players. it's the cold hard truth

 

[classical_hero]

As seen through the eyes of a one-eyed supporter.

 

[El Justo]

you guys can crow all you want about me and my love affair. however, my eyes don't deceive me. both of them. i've watched beltran play a lot over the years, when he was good and all that. he is not what he once was. i don't care what stats you throw at me.

 

[dgfred]

But honestly... if you were a GM and had a choice:

Beltran for the rest of the year (age, health, salary, etc) OR Pence for a few years (age, health, Righthanded bat, etc) for about the same deal... which would you WANT?

 

[El Justo]

they just wanna hate. eyes don't deceive gentlemen. i've watched baseball for a long time. it has nothing to do with my infatuation. if anything, it may be more akin to my hatred for beltran. but that is another story.

 

[Darkness]

But honestly... if you were a GM and had a choice:

Beltran for the rest of the year (age, health, salary, etc) OR Pence for a few years (age, health, Righthanded bat, etc) for about the same deal... which would you WANT?

I would want Pence too, but that's not the point that Theige was making...

Based on the stats Beltran has been (slightly) better than Pence, but El J is just conveniently ignoring that argument...

In all honesty, I think Atlanta and Texas probably did even better than Philadelphia at the trading deadline...