2019 NFL Offseason thread

[Timsup2nothin]

But all of this means the Giants having another bad regular-season record shouldn't be entirely blamed on the front office/coach. Sometimes bad luck happens.

I don't think it's about blame, or even bad luck. Sure, they are flailing, and flailing always looks bad. But truth is that no team, ever, comes off over a decade of solid results built on long term stability and just chugs on like nothing happened. Any Giants fan who thought they could just take out the old Eli and plug in a new one in his place without a pause was delusional.

 

[caketastydelish]

They haven't even tried that until now, to be fair. I'm of the opinion it will take one more season of suckage/good draft picks for them to be a respectable team.

Former Giants championship teams were built on decent O-line (which they have improved compared to where they were recently), and a very strong rotational defensive line.

You cannot build that roster overnight, and once you have it you cannot keep it long, but it's something they can gradually acquire again. Right now is not the appropriate time anyway, because of how stacked the rest of NFC East is.

But the Eagles gradually won't be able to keep everybody, and neither will the Cowboys and Redskins.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

They haven't even tried that until now, to be fair. I'm of the opinion it will take one more season of suckage/good draft picks for them to be a respectable team.

Former Giants championship teams were built on decent O-line (which they have improved compared to where they were recently), and a very strong rotational defensive line.

You cannot build that roster overnight, and once you have it you cannot keep it long, but it's something they can gradually acquire again. Right now is not the appropriate time anyway, because of how stacked the rest of NFC East is.

But the Eagles gradually won't be able to keep everybody, and neither will the Cowboys and Redskins.

They are riding down the chute with Eli because there is no such thing as a replacement, and that's reality for any team with a long term face of the franchise quarterback. The Steelers will ride down the chute with Roethlisberger and suck for a while. The Eagles rode down the chute with McNabb and sucked for a while. The Dolphins rode down the chute with Marino and have sucked ever since, which demonstrates a really unfortunate range of possibilities that a team like the Giants needs to worry about. Stability is really the key to success, and the one inescapable truth about stability is that no matter how long it lasts, it does end. That end is invariably messy, and in fact is made messier when the stability lasted a long time and/or produced really big success...meaning that the Giants are only as much of a mess as should really be expected, since Eli lasted a very long time and produced the biggest successes available.

 

[rah]

We can only hope with the Patriots.
It would be fun to watch them suck for awhile.

 

[caketastydelish]

@Sommerswerd

You will like this.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Predicting the teams that will have "the biggest jump in number of wins" by listing off the teams who are starting from FOUR is hardly in the "bold predictions" category. Nor is the 49ers being on the list much cause for excitement from their fans, since the guy outright says he is expecting +4...which puts the 49ers at eight and eight even if we assume he's right.

 

[caketastydelish]

Supposing the 49ers do go 8-8, that would be the first time they had a non-losing season in 5 years. Relatively speaking, I think that does constitute "something to get excited about".

FWIW I personally also think they will go 8-8 (I sent Sommerswerd a long PM giving my prediction for all their regular-season games and it totaled out to 8-8.) And I made that list before discovering this guy's twitter post.

8-8 means you're no longer part of the laughing stock of the league, which they have been for a long time.

There aren't THAT many teams that go from 4-12 to playoffs in one offseason.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm going to credit "49ers go 8-8" as a fairly bold prediction, but repeat that in the fantasy world of 49er fans where the glorious past featuring Joe Montana is like yesterday it won't cause much of a stir...if it happens. The reason I call it a bold prediction is that it has to be predicated on two very shaky premises.

One) Jimmy G stays healthy for sixteen games. I know you are accepting this as likely, but all the evidence points in the exact opposite direction.

Two) Jimmy G is, in fact, a marquee quarterback that is worth all the money he is being paid. This one I think is a bit less unlikely than the first one, but still not anything like a lock.

Put the two together in "both must be true for this to turn out" and you get a very dicey proposition.

 

[caketastydelish]

It’s a role of the dice I’m willing to take until proven wrong lol.

Obviously, no way to know for sure until the season starts.

One thing I will say is his last injury was caused by sheer bad decision making... trying to run too much to pick up extra yardage when he should have just slid to end the play.

The odds of him playing risky like that again is pretty slim, for the reasons you listed. Which is to say, if he can’t stay healthy this season either the 49ers are all but guaranteed to move on. Staying healthy is more important than playing risky for a little extra yardage, and I’m willing to bet he’s finally learned his lesson in that regard. Another strength of Garropolo is his quick release/ability to get rid of the ball fast and I anticipate he will adjust to depend on that advantage more than before to keep himself upright and healthy.

And the 49ers offense (outside of Jimmy G himself) is more loaded than it's been in its entirety with Shanahan as their head coach this upcoming season.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

We will have to wait and see, but for now I find the whole "bet he learned his lesson" thing to sound a lot more like hope than probability. The guy has started twelve games and finished seven. So why didn't he learn his lesson before? "Fifth time's the charm" is not a commonly used phrase, far as I know.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Supposing the 49ers do go 8-8, that would be the first time they had a non-losing season in 5 years. Relatively speaking, I think that does constitute "something to get excited about".

It's not. I'd rather they go 4-12 again and get the good draft picks than go 8-8 and get jack squat.

I'm with @Timsup2nothin that predicting a bad team with hurt star players becomes mediocre with healthy stars is about the most milquetoast prediction that can be made. A bolder prediction is to predict a Superbowl winner or Conference playoff contender becomes mediocre, or to predict that a team with no wins becomes mediocre, or that a team who didn't make the playoffs wins the Superbowl. In other words... predicting a 1-4 win-loss swing is pretty... uninspiring/easy/safe. 5-6 wins is a little more adventurous, but can still be pretty safe if its depending on things like healed injuries to stars and proven players. Now an 8 win-loss swing prediction is BOLD. Give me a 7-8 win swing prediction and I'll be impressed.

 

[caketastydelish]

The 49ers probably can't win that many more games than 8 because their defense outside of their defensive line is still too weak for the most part. But other than that they’re a thoroughly complete team. They have one of the top 5 amount of cap space for any team so sucking for draft picks isn’t a necessity. Another bad season could spell the end of your head coaches job anyway. This may be his last chance to put up at least mediocre results before they move on.

 

[rah]

There is nothing worse than thinking your team going 8 - 8 makes it a successful season.
As a life long Bears fan I am very familiar with that type of thinking, and it has always made me feel dirty.
May it be awhile before I have to think that way again.
It's like thinking if the Bulls eek into the playoffs I should be pleased. No that isn't a success.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

It's not. I'd rather they go 4-12 again and get the good draft picks than go 8-8 and get jack squat.

I'm with @Timsup2nothin that predicting a bad team with hurt star players becomes mediocre with healthy stars is about the most milquetoast prediction that can be made. A bolder prediction is to predict a Superbowl winner or Conference playoff contender becomes mediocre, or to predict that a team with no wins becomes mediocre, or that a team who didn't make the playoffs wins the Superbowl. In other words... predicting a 1-4 win-loss swing is pretty... uninspiring/easy/safe. 5-6 wins is a little more adventurous, but can still be pretty safe if its depending on things like healed injuries to stars and proven players. Now an 8 win-loss swing prediction is BOLD. Give me a 7-8 win swing prediction and I'll be impressed.

A four win gain can be a bold prediction. If a team went 12-4 predicting a four win swing is predicting an undefeated season. The guy did list the Falcons, which means a jump from 7-9 to 11-5, and even that doesn't seem terribly bold. But coming from 4-12 it's just...nothing.

 

[caketastydelish]

It isn't. The Browns have pissed the bed for literally over a decade, and predicting they would win 4 games more than the previous year would have been outrageous until very recently. There have been teams with a well established "culture of losing" and the 49ers have been one of those teams for some time. Even with their new head coach, which is supposedly so much better than what they had, they still haven't had a single non-losing season to date. Nothing is guaranteed in football so going 8-8 isn't a given whatsoever.

I think they've legitimately improved enough to go from 4-12 to 8-8. I wouldn't call doubling your number of wins as "nothing".

 

[Sommerswerd]

A four win gain can be a bold prediction. If a team went 12-4 predicting a four win swing is predicting an undefeated season.

That isn't really a fair comparison because pedicting an undefeated season is always a bold prediction. However I would agree with you that predicting that a previously 10-6 team will win the Superbowl is a bold prediction, even though they could accomplish that with only +4 (playoff) wins.

It isn't. The Browns have pissed the bed for literally over a decade, and predicting they would win 4 games more than the previous year would have been outrageous until very recently. There have been teams with a well established "culture of losing" and the 49ers have been one of those teams for some time. Even with their new head coach, which is supposedly so much better than what they had, they still haven't had a single non-losing season to date. Nothing is guaranteed in football so going 8-8 isn't a given whatsoever.

I think they've legitimately improved enough to go from 4-12 to 8-8. I wouldn't call doubling your number of wins as "nothing".

It's nothing. As a lifelong 49ers fan, I'm telling you its nothing. End of story, not subject to argument. I'm a 49ers fan and I'm telling you it doesn't mean jack-horsehocky to me... so I don't see how you can possibly try to tell me that its meaningful, to me as a 49ers fan, when I'm telling you that it just isn't. Maybe you think it should be, but you're wrong. It's not. If the 49ers make the playoffs, I'll be satisfied with the season. Anything less and I'll be disappointed. They've spent too much money on Jimmy G to miss the playoffs.

I'm glad you brought up the Browns though... cause if you go back and check the threads, following their 0-16 season, I consistently and steadfastly predicted that they would go around 8-8, finishing no worse than 6 wins. They finished 7-9. Predicting a 6-8 win swing and getting it right... Now that was a bold. Do that, and I'll be impressed.

 

[caketastydelish]

As an actual 49er fan, you personally might be a bit delusional. I meant from the perspective of a third party.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I think they've legitimately improved enough to go from 4-12 to 8-8. I wouldn't call doubling your number of wins as "nothing".

If you went 1-15 last year no one is going to throw you a party for doubling your number of wins.

 

[Sommerswerd]

As an actual 49er fan, you personally might be a bit delusional. I meant from the perspective of a third party.

I can't be delusional about what I think. Your personal opinion about what I think doesn't change that. And your so-called "third party perspective" on what 49ers fans should be excited about is worth less than used toilet paper compared to what we actually are excited about (and it's not the prospect of going 8-8 ).

In other words cake, you're just wrong... let it go and move on to another topic/team. Do we need to take another 49ers break? I think maybe we do.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So today my pastor picked up his wife's glasses and put on that classic hilarious show of a guy realizing he is wearing a shirt that doesn't have a pocket. You know, pokes himself in the chest a couple times with the glasses, looks down, sees no pocket but tries one last time because his hand has already been told to move, stands there perplexed because you can't put glasses in your pants pocket...I'm sure you've all seen it.

I'm standing there with a friend and said "Giants fan, you can tell by the shirt."
Pastor, who is a huge Giants fan: "Oh boy, here we go."
Friend, who is a Cowboys fan: "Huh?"
Me, well known Eagles fan: "Giants shirt, no pocket."
Pastor: "What are you talking about?"
Me: "C'mon man...when Eli drops back, what's he land in?"



Okay, breaks over...how 'bout them 49ers? I'm gonna predict that at the end of the season 49ers fans are going to be envious of teams that went 8-8...but will still be able to look down at the Giants.