2020 US Election (Part One)

[Ajidica]

What do you have in mind? The congress was republican from 94 onward, so there would hardly have been a need to dress a "right-wing" policy as something else if he wanted it passed. But relatively little got passed.

Errr, what?
Clinton was dressing up right-wing polices like the criminal justice overhaul that contributed to our over-incarceration and "tough on crime" era or PRWORA with lefty language and themes in order to get it past liberal and leftist groups. One Clinton aide resigned over PRWORA and how terrible it was.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1997/03/the-worst-thing-bill-clinton-has-done/376797/

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Birthright citizenship seems a bit odd to me assuming I understand it correctly.

If an American women came to New Zealand in holiday and gave birth here that child is an NZ citizen? Assuming the child's father wasn't an NZer.

We don't have that here lol. My assumptions could be wrong.

Children of mixed nationalities should be legible for citizenship in either country IMHO.

Yes, if you have a baby in the US, that child is an American citizen and this makes it easier for the mother/family to file for legal immigrant status as well.

I do not think the US recognizes dual citizenship but many nations do and there's no penalty of claiming dual citizenship with another government so long as you follow our laws and pay taxes appropriately. US citizens have to pay taxes on income earned abroad over a certain threshold though it's pretty high.

Is Spic no longer a derogatory term?
It certainly was when I was young. I was surprised to see it used. But maybe that was just in the US.

Yes it's still a highly derogatory term, sarcastic or not. Not sure how it's not on the autocensor.

 

[Imaus]

The other way around makes (more) sense

No? Sanders has no real victory behind him. He was a mayor. Ask anyone on the street: what has Sanders done? They say he was a mayor, a participant in marches, then a free senator.

Ask them about Warren. At the very least there's a 'she wrangled the banks' line in there. She actually has some concrete victories under her belt. Sanders...not so much. I'm sure there's a watchdog or official stat thing somewhere. I think Sanders has proposed a lot of bills but only like two? passed?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

If I recall correctly, Sanders has not gotten many of his own bills passed but he has written a lot of amendments to other people's bills and managed to get them passed. I vaguely recall reading a claim that no other senator in history has even come close to passing as many amendments as Bernie.

 

[Berzerker]

Warren was a Republican back in the 90s?

 

[Birdjaguar]

That would be why he's VP. So that he'd get a voice. I really like Yang, wish he had a chance.

But Warren really won me over long before she became a politician

Warren/Yang ticket!

 

[Ironsided]

I personally don't want Sanders as part of the administration. He seems like he would be like Jeremy Corbyn, but even crankier, and spend all his time fighting with his own party rather than governing/leading the opposition.
Let Sanders stay out of the administration, but (especially if Warren is President) allied to it, so he can be all cranky and rabble-rousing on the outside.

Assuming again are we? Did we not have a very similar assumption from you just weeks ago? Now please read this post really slow and a couple of times for good measure – Hobbs and Truthy too – then fact check it: Jeremy Corbyn was elected by his party by one of the largest margins ever, twice. He has in deed and in rhetorical terms been one of the most courteous and gracious leaders the labour party ever had. Principled and firm, yes, but not unreasonable. Unlike the wishes of all the rebel MPs and the lying in British media he has kept to the party line agreed on the Labour party conference. He has upheld his democratic duty better than anyone else in that house for a long time. For this he has been ridiculed by the real cranks, the press and the Blairite fossils and their allies in the commons. JC does not fight his party – forces within the party he was democratically and overwhelmingly elected leader of are fighting him – in cahoots with liberal and conservative media. Why? Because he is against the austerity. The real issue for Britain. While some of the 210 000 homeless children in Britain are housed in shipping containers JCs real voice is bombarded and drowned out with Brexit. All the while the answers they demand he sway from is right there and available in the damn plan democratically outlined by the Labour conference.

Now Bernie is a crank, and he’s usually at his best when he is cranky. I’ll also give you this, Bernie is in a similar position to JC. Just rephrase your concern more honestly and it’s not a bad take. If you are a cowardly democrat who do not want much more change than go back to Obama days and continue to feed the strong and crap on the weak I can take and respect that honesty.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes, if you have a baby in the US, that child is an American citizen and this makes it easier for the mother/family to file for legal immigrant status as well.

I do not think the US recognizes dual citizenship but many nations do and there's no penalty of claiming dual citizenship with another government so long as you follow our laws and pay taxes appropriately. US citizens have to pay taxes on income earned abroad over a certain threshold though it's pretty high.

Yes it's still a highly derogatory term, sarcastic or not. Not sure how it's not on the autocensor.

I checked our laws and we don't have birthright citizenship.

You only get citizenship if one parent is a citizen or has permanent residency.

Not a Trump fan but if he wants to change that law it doesn't seem crazy or anything.

Didn't realize it was constitutional. Oops tough luck Trump.

 

[mitsho]

Birthright citizenship is not only constitutional, it's also in the American Idea. It's baked into the heart of the Manifest Destiny. It's the Land of the Free and of endless Opportunity. It's the Wild West, Gold Rush, but also just driving to Hollywood or Wall Street or Silicon Valley and sleeping in your car for the first days. It's about starting as a dishwasher, but becoming a millionaire. Equal opportunity requires that you can become a citizen and that everyone fleeing can become one. You know, that phrase in the poem on the Statue of Liberty.

It's one idea of America, competing with other ideas like the biblical "shining city upon a hill" and whatever Trump believes. If he can abolish birthright citizenship, my first drawn picture will take a dent. Is America still the Land of the Free?

 

[Dekker]

I checked our laws and we don't have birthright citizenship.

You only get citizenship if one parent is a citizen or has permanent residency.

Not a Trump fan but if he wants to change that law it doesn't seem crazy or anything.

Didn't realize it was constitutional. Oops tough luck Trump.

How come not a Trump fan when you seem to support many of his policies?

Birthright citizenship is not only constitutional, it's also in the American Idea. It's baked into the heart of the Manifest Destiny. It's the Land of the Free and of endless Opportunity. It's the Wild West, Gold Rush, but also just driving to Hollywood or Wall Street or Silicon Valley and sleeping in your car for the first days. It's about starting as a dishwasher, but becoming a millionaire. Equal opportunity requires that you can become a citizen and that everyone fleeing can become one. You know, that phrase in the poem on the Statue of Liberty.

It's one idea of America, competing with other ideas like the biblical "shining city upon a hill" and whatever Trump believes. If he can abolish birthright citizenship, my first drawn picture will take a dent. Is America still the Land of the Free?

That poem on the Statue is meant to refer to those who can stand on their own two feet. Preferably educated and with our values.

 

[Zardnaar]

How come not a Trump fan when you seem to support many of his policies?

Trump's cancer. Broadly speaking I support Keynesian economic policies, most liberal policies with things like gay marriage, gun control, the welfare state, universal healthcare etc, higher taxes on the wealthy etc.

I don't support open borders and some of the extreme SJW stuff. I'm also realistic enough to know what can actually win an election.

For example in New Zealand we don't have birthright citizenship and if you overstay your visa you can get deported. I don't approve of Trump splitting up families. But if you get caught in another country with no visa you more or less have to expect deportation.

Most countries in the world don't have birthright citizenship afaik there's around 30.

If you want to migrate to NZ just do it legally, it's very difficult without papers anyway when it comes to employment or even renting.

I don't regard Trump wanting to revoke it as extreme since birth tourism is actually a thing in the USA.

I expect Trump to crash and burn next year. If you go to far left or right you tend to get thrown out of office.

I forgot I also support legal pot and prostitution. Some things like gay marriage I support which I think is reasonable but I don't think it's reasonable to force churches to perform the service.

Private sphere/public sphere.

 

[Arakhor]

Moderator Action: Do not use derogatory racial terms at CFC, whether or not they're blocked by the auto-censor.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

That poem on the Statue is meant to refer to those who can stand on their own two feet. Preferably educated and with our values.

Its author, Emma Lazarus, was a Georgist who strongly believed that the government should be funded exclusively by Land Value Taxes and that it should use the LVT to fund a pension for everyone, including the poorest of immigrants who are not yet ready to support themselves.

 

[Tristan_C]

Errr, what?
Clinton was dressing up right-wing polices like the criminal justice overhaul that contributed to our over-incarceration and "tough on crime" era or PRWORA with lefty language and themes in order to get it past liberal and leftist groups. One Clinton aide resigned over PRWORA and how terrible it was.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1997/03/the-worst-thing-bill-clinton-has-done/376797/

k that's a longish article but the subject of his writing is the 1996 welfare reform, not criminal justice. It covers a major instance of Clinton using the language of the right to protect a left wing policy (major in the sense that welfare reform was the landmark legislative debate in the 90s):

Governor Clinton campaigned in 1992 on the promise to “end welfare as we know it” and the companion phrase “Two years and you’re off.”
...Clinton promised to end welfare as we know it and to institute what sounded like a two-year time limit. This was bumper-sticker politics—oversimplification to win votes. Polls during the campaign showed that it was very popular, and a salient item in garnering votes. Clinton's slogans were also cleverly ambiguous. On the one hand, as President, Clinton could take a relatively liberal path that was nonetheless consistent with his campaign rhetoric. In 1994 he proposed legislation that required everyone to be working by the time he or she had been on the rolls for two years. But it also said, more or less in the fine print, that people who played by the rules and couldn't find work could continue to get benefits within the same federal-state framework that had existed since 1935.

For his part, the author seems duplicitous. He starts off with invective against how the pre-90s system invites long-term dependency and he ends on a similar vein that the root problems and their solutions are somewhat beyond the scope of welfare (the culture in the inner cities, "jobs jobs jobs," et al). But throughout the whole middle of the article, every feature of the existing system that gets cut he squeals like a pig.

addendum
I should point out that whatever he actually believed in, one reason Clinton was willing to negotiate on a lot of this welfare reform stuff and the media's Draconian Cuts™ meme was his interest in being reelected at the end of 96. Afterwards, from 97-00 the parties just basically dug in and Lewinskied through the next cycle.

Also in hindsight we have no data supporting the author's promise that millions of people would slip into poverty or die off as a result of the legislation. The school lunch hoo-ha has no bodycount either.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

For example in New Zealand we don't have birthright citizenship and if you overstay your visa you can get deported.

It's the same here dude.

I don't regard Trump wanting to revoke it as extreme since birth tourism is actually a thing in the USA

Birth tourism is not nearly as big a thing as the extreme right makes it out to be in order to justify punitive, anti-immigration policies:

The Center for Health Care Statistics estimates that there were 7,462 births to foreign residents in the United States in 2008, the most recent year for which statistics are available. That is a small fraction of the roughly 4.3 million total births that year

Of course conservatives use their own numbers:

The Center for Immigration Studies, a conservative think tank, estimated in 2012 that there were approximately 40,000 annual births to parents in the United States as birth tourists.[5][6] The Center also estimated in 2012 that total births to temporary immigrants in the United States (e.g., tourists, students, guest workers) could be as high as 200,000.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_tourism

 

[Zardnaar]

It's the same here dude.

Birth tourism is not nearly as big a thing as the extreme right makes it out to be in order to justify punitive, anti-immigration policies:


Of course conservatives use their own numbers:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birth_tourism

I think that it happens at all and people abuse it is the real problem.

Here you need a parent or lived legally here for 5 years and have permanent residence.

You can have multiple types visas as long as they add up to 5 years.

If one parent has citizenship the other parent could apply for partner of xyz visa as well.
NZ governments not big on breaking up families. They might deport a whole family and there's always the occasional sob story on the news.

I've suspected some people of being illegal you just keep your mouth shut, employment options are limited and you would be vulnerable to exploitation.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I think that it happens at all and people abuse it is the real problem.

Based on what? Conservative talking points?

If one parent has citizenship the other parent could apply for partner of xyz visa as well.
NZ governments not big on breaking up families. They might deport a whole family and there's always the occasional sob story on the news.

The US also tries to keep families together and allows citizens to sponsor foreign family members to come over but Trump is trying to end that as well.




Jay Inslee is dropping out and John Hickenlooper is going to run for the Senate in Colorado which I assume means he's dropping out too.

 

[Lexicus]

John Hickenlooper is going to run for the Senate in Colorado which I assume means he's dropping out too.

Hickenlooper officially dropped out a few days ago IIRC

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Oh I missed that

 

[Lexicus]

Oh I missed that

Figured you must've. I missed he was running for Senate so it evens out