2020 US Election (Part One)

[Birdjaguar]

If Trump had been elected in 2000 we wouldn't have invaded Iraq, he might have even prevented 9/11 by changing direction on foreign policy. If he was elected in 2008 Libya and Syria would still be intact countries. With up to a million or more dead and millions displaced all stemming from policies Clinton supported and Trump opposed you might lose that argument.

Making up hypotheticals is easy work and mostly useless. I have one!

If the Republicans hadn't decided in Jan 2009 to reject every effort by Obama and put everything they had into making him a one term president, we would be a happier and and more prosperous nation. Had they worked to create a bipartisan Healthcare plan, we would all be better off.

 

[Kyriakos]

I hope you people realize how the rest of the civilized or semi-civilized world looks at religiousness popularity contest ala Romney and most other Us politicians.
It is pretty bizarre.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I hope you people realize how the rest of the civilized or semi-civilized world looks at religiousness popularity contest ala Romney and most other Us politicians.
It is pretty bizarre.

WE take our religion very seriously in the US....

 

[Kyriakos]

WE take our religion very seriously in the US....

You should like Iran more then

 

[Farm Boy]

Indeed.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

But Sanders isn't even that far left.

In the context of American politics, he's the most credible politician from the far left since FDR. He wasn't 'even that far left' either but he pushed through a host of social programs that form the bedrock of the American safety net. Sanders wants to dramatically transform the way some of that safety net works and re-prioritize resources away from the military. Even if he makes a pitiful excuse for leftist overseas, here he is seen as radical.

 

[Gorbles]

In the context of American politics, he's the most credible politician from the far left since FDR. He wasn't 'even that far left' either but he pushed through a host of social programs that form the bedrock of the American safety net. Sanders wants to dramatically transform the way some of that safety net works and re-prioritize resources away from the military. Even if he makes a pitiful excuse for leftist overseas, here he is seen as radical.

I understand how he's perceived (though I'd more accurately describe it as right-wing fearmongering - the whole non-stop Red Scare thing that's still apparently going on is just, well, wow) - my point is that my criticism of Pelosi in this regard comes from leftists and progressives. It was an attempt to present her behaviour and why it makes for her, not being a leftist (regardless of the perception of Americans).

 

[innonimatu]

Nobody was outraged. I'm more puzzled by this sort of insults thrown around against basically everyone who is not Sanders. Now you say people must vote for Sander to "save democracy".

Why is Sanders attracting such weird worshippers? To be fair to him I don't think he encourages this. He is a grumpy old man and doesn't pretend to be anything else, much to his credit. He doesn't play the messiah wannabe. Yet for you and many others in this thread (bizarrely, many of which are not even Americans), Sanders is clearly the savior and all those who stand in his way, such as "Buttiplug" as you say, deserve to be insulted and demonized. Weird times.

Because he has a virtue few politicians have now: he says what he thinks and ticks to what he argued for. I can't recall any example of him selling out or being pressured to do some flip-flop. Even Corbyn, the other notorious leftist leader in a big country, tarnished his image over brexit and keeping the party together.
Now Bernie did support the warmonger in the last election. But that didn't tarnish him because he had given his word that he'd support the winner of the primaries (regardless of the fairness of the win...). So he stuck to it.

Other parts of his tax plan are plain stupid, have been tried elsewhere and failed spectacularly. I

There is nowhere for the wealthy to run to from the US taxman, if a US government really wants to tax them. In that the US' hegemonic position in the world today makes it very different from nearly all other countries.

 

[Traitorfish]

In the context of American politics, he's the most credible politician from the far left since FDR. He wasn't 'even that far left' either but he pushed through a host of social programs that form the bedrock of the American safety net. Sanders wants to dramatically transform the way some of that safety net works and re-prioritize resources away from the military. Even if he makes a pitiful excuse for leftist overseas, here he is seen as radical.

I think what Sanders brings into focus is that the specific slate of policies offered by a left-wing campaign may not be so important as the position they are offered from, and those who they are posed against.

Sanders' platform would be that of a moderate social democrat in Europe, but his campaign is a direct and explicit challenge to the existing distribution of economic and political power. Sanders specifically employs the language of class and, albeit in a somewhat muted way, class conflict, and his campaign has orientated itself explicitly towards mobilising people who are disengaged from the political process, to expanding and levelling the American political sphere. His campaign has not been constructed in the traditional centre-left model of a mediator between the ruling class and the masses, but as a popular intrusion into the halls of power.

Sanders' policies may be theoretically closer to the centre than many European social democrats, but his politics are markedly to their left.

 

[Takhisis]

Tonight, Barr has issued a directive that there will be no federal investigations of any candidate in the 2020 election without his personal approval.

So whoever's investigated will be the target of political persecution then?

Whenever anything ever goes wrong with the Democrats, Republicans take the blame. (justifiably most of the time)
But this is just plain silly. The author wants you to believe that some prank calls were the problem and not the system itself.
I give you a clue. If all it takes are some phone calls to mess you up, it's a bad stinking system.

If they had exchanged the party labels here, I still would have found it entertaining, so don't read this as me supporting Republicans please.

The system is bad, but the vulnerability was exploited intentionally. It's like shooting somebody dead through a glass window and blaming them for not using bulletproof glass.

I'm not asking for people to vote, just showing them the reality of their choices. I have no expectations beyond my own vote. Of course you should be guilted into voting. Voting is important and to not do so is terrible. I think we should also reward folks for voting.

You should just have a) mandatory voting and b) a civic culture of voting. It works itself out from there.

 

[Commodore]

Just wait til he get elected on Nov 3rd. I will enjoy your fury

He's not even going to get the Democrat nomination. The DNC is already making sure of that. And I think the DNC is so against him not necessarily because of his ideas, but because they see him as an outsider who is just trying to use the party for his own political gain. I mean, this is a guy who ran as an independent his whole political career and only started running as a Democrat because he knew that was his only chance of winning the presidency. Because of that, I don't think the DNC sees him as a "true Democrat" and thus does not want him to become the face and leader of the party.

 

[Narz]

There was an unflattering article about Yang in the NYT today.

F those schmucks, they think Klobuchar is a winner.

I believe it was the NYT, I only read the first half. They interviewed people who worked for him and they said his heart is in the right place but he fumbles a lot on issues of race and gender. They painted him to be a low-key mansplainer.

Anyone who uses the word mansplain doesn't deserve to be listened to.

Politicians used to worry about not triggering nuclear war, now they worry about not triggered the pink-haired kid across the hall from you in college.

I'd rather have someone kinda spectrumy who can get **** done than a smooth talker like Mayor Pete

 

[innonimatu]

I think that there is a very fair chance he will get the nomination. There is only so much that can be done to distort the results of a vote, and in this case it is many votes., before everyone notices and becomes pissed.

Mayor Pete reminds me of Rory Steward in the UK. That one failed to get far despite an important part of the establishment sponsoring him.

 

[Arakhor]

If Trump had been elected in 2000 we wouldn't have invaded Iraq, he might have even prevented 9/11 by changing direction on foreign policy. If he was elected in 2008 Libya and Syria would still be intact countries. With up to a million or more dead and millions displaced all stemming from policies Clinton supported and Trump opposed you might lose that argument.

Why are you talking so glowingly about the man who reputedly had to be talked down from nuking North Korea?

 

[Estebonrober]

Why are you talking so glowingly about the man who reputedly had to be talked down from nuking North Korea?

Its to the point of mythological idol worship with @Berzerker at this point

 

[Arakhor]

Well, I suppose that something would be glowing after a nuclear exchange, but it wouldn't be the instigator's reputation.

 

[Berzerker]

isn't currently running... jeez dude, you should consider talking to someone about that.

@Birdjaguar brought her up, not me

Again, she isn't running... But in any case, for someone who just said they prefer Trump "in comparison to" someone else and that it was "no contest"... you suddenly seem conveniently unfamiliar with the "lesser of two evils" concept...

I said there was no comparison between their respective instincts on foreign policy...and the record shows that to be true.

I mean are you saying that you alone can "neither love nor hate" Trump and make an "objective" choice that Trump is preferable to someone else... but if anyone else does the same, ie make a determination that one candidate is preferable to another... its proof-positive that they must "love" that candidate? You don't see how contradictory and hypocritical that is?

I said me alone? There's plenty of people who dont share your hatred of Trump without loving him. I said I neither love or hate him and that gives me more objectivity than someone who does hate him. You're not anyone else, you do hate him, right? And it was you who accused me of loving Trump.

The bottom line is only love would make a person defend someone so odious as Trump as adamantly and unwaveringly as you do. Therefore you love Trump. That's how unconditional love works.

I dont defend him when I think he's wrong, just when I think he's unfairly attacked (or spied on by people you support - ya that aint odious). You're a lawyer, do you love the odious people you defend?

I don't see the connection.

You just cited the political environment of a competitive district in a positive light, gerrymandered safe seats lack that quality.

 

[Commodore]

Anyone who uses the word mansplain doesn't deserve to be listened to

Agreed. Although I would amend your statement to say those who use the word mansplain unironically. It's perfectly okay to use the word to mock those who do use it seriously.

 

[Zkribbler]

I looked all over for the NH debate, and finally found it on democrats.org. For the most part, its the same old arguments, just presented with a snottier attitude.

It's Saturday morning here, and my self imposed deadline for mailing in my ballot is Monday. I'm looking for a breakthrough.

 

[Ajidica]

Mayor Pete reminds me of Rory Steward in the UK. That one failed to get far despite an important part of the establishment sponsoring him.

Are the Spooks even that important to the British Establishment these days? The spooks didn't even have the power to stop Blair from dragging the UK into a war they spooks were trying to avoid and stood by as Blair shamelessly twisted intelligence.