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2020 US Election (Part Two)

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Lexicus, Mar 11, 2020.

  1. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Lexicus' original post from the first thread:

    We all know the deal so I figured I'd take the opportunity to just go ahead and make this thread to discuss the 2020 US elections.

    Maybe at some point closer to the actual event we can have a thread about the Congressional side of things and the Presidential side of things. Maybe we can just keep it all in this thread.

    Moderator Action: The first 2020 Election thread was well over 500 pages in length and, in an attempt to stop it from corrupting itself, I have locked it and started a new thread from one of Lexicus' posts. Thank you. ~ Arakhor
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 12, 2020
  2. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    In first!

    Any bets on when Warren endorses? Or does she go back to how she started, just repeating ... "I agree with Bernie"?

    I'm mostly wondering if Warren calculates that waiting on Bernie is the best way to protect herself or if she thinks endorsing Biden earlier will yield her some benefit?
     
  3. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    But I have the first comment of substance.



    Dunno why you guys are so eager to rally around a losing candidate, especially the older folks. Is it Stockholm Syndrome?

    Democrats and "the electable moderate" is just their version of Republicans' "trickle-down".
     
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  4. mitsho

    mitsho Deity

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    To be fair though, Trump on the other side is no Nixon, Bush or Bush. He's unhinged and so Biden does have a chance. But sure, that argument holds for Sanders as well.
     
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  5. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    And all of that isn't even considering Hillary Clinton in 2008* and 2016. The more I think about it, the more anxious I become about Biden running against Trump. Among other things, I'm worried that Trump is going to walk all over him, at debates, on social media, and so on.


    * Barack Obama wasn't 'supposed' to win the nomination in '08. I don't even think the old guard of the Democratic Party wanted him to run. At the convention in '04, he gave a keynote speech that wowed everybody, and he was immediately anointed the Party's #1 guy... for 2016. He jumped the line and the voters chose him over Clinton, who was supposed to be next. And of course, Obama's campaign was premised on something not unlike Trump's and Sanders': "Change we can believe in" was Obama's campaign slogan in '08. Another person Obama beat in the '08 primary? *drumroll* Joe Biden (who helpfully noted that Obama was "articulate and clean"). iirc, Biden was being promoted as the prudent and practical centrist back then, too.
     
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  6. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    Likely to wait until the last possible moment. It has to be a terrible place to be.

    Her Bernie's a secret sexist stunt and the Bernie bro backlash she took created bad blood there. On the other hand the only reason we think she's a progressive is because she stood up to hucksters like Biden so hard over economic issues (bankruptcy bill). Endorsing him just looks like a machiavellian power play. One that's unlikely to pan out because there's just no reason Biden would want someone with such different views in his administration. Itd also undermine a lot of her credibility as an economic progressive.
     
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  7. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Retired Moderator Supporter

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    @Arakhor Well, I think that the first thread should have been allowed to reach page 538 on principle. :p
     
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  8. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    That is an excellent point. Have I mentioned before that I would make a terrible American? :p
     
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  9. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    You think it matters? All the Warren->Bernie voters I know (including my parents and a few Millennial women I know) don't need her endorsement to go with Bernie. I don't know any Warren->Biden folks but I assume the same holds true for them. And the ones who really wanted a woman may just sit the election out regardless of whom she endorses.
     
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  10. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    It matters for her. If, for example, Warren were to endorse Bernie now, and frame it as an act of defiance against the establishment, she could become a folk hero of sorts, setting herself up to take Bernie's mantle in 2024. The only way it would make sense for her to do this, would be if she was confident that Biden was going to lose anyway, so she has nothing to gain by endorsing him. Now granted, I think this strategy would set her up for a Hillary 2008-like jilting at the hands of AOC in 2024, but maybe she doesn't see it that way.

    If on the other hand, she is confident that Biden is going to be elected POTUS, then she has avoid endorsing Bernie, but still carefully time her endorsement of Biden to avoid being labeled a sellout, but also avoid being labeled an opportunist/bandwagoneer. I don't know if she can pull it off, but I'm interested, because Warren was my preferred candidate this cycle. So I'm particularly interested to see when she winds up.
     
  11. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    You left out the part where four years later the youth were given their way, McGovern was the candidate, and it was the greatest electoral college massacre in the history of presidential politics.

    For the good of the progressive wing she and Sanders need to endorse together so I expect her to wait for him.
     
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  12. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    I think it would. Two places Bernie's getting drubbed is educated suburbanites and "I want the more electable candidate" people. Warren's popular enough and enough of an "acceptable to the establishment" figure that she could swing those groups.
     
  13. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    But you count the failure of McGovern while giving a pass to the failure of Hillary, Kerry, Dukakis, Humphrey, Biden.
     
  14. AmazonQueen

    AmazonQueen Virago

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    All the successful Democrat candidates in recent years have been people who could avoid close identification with the Democratic establishment.
    Carter and Bill Clinton were both governors, Obama ran on a change platform.
    Republicans, even Dubya, run on an anti-Washington platform.
    Bush Senior is the only politician as clearly identified with the establishment as Biden to win a presidential election since Nixon.
     
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  15. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    Dems haven't won every presidential election since 1968 :run:. Dems are dumb! If only Dem's would pick the candidate favored by the demographic least likely to vote. Then they'd win every election.
     
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  16. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    I don't give a pass to anybody. Just pointed out a blatant flaw in your "shoulda gone with McGovern in 68" logic.

    I don't really know what you are on about with this. Whether we "shoulda gone with Sanders" last time...who frickin' knows? We have no idea how Sanders would have done in the general election because he couldn't get the votes in the primary. Now we see that using the lessons learned from losing last time he is losing bigger this time. I'm not sure who you are trying to blame for that.
     
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  17. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    Governors do pretty well in general because its essentially an executive moving to a bigger executive position. People see it as relevant experience.

    Dubya definitely ran against Washington. There are even clips of him in a debate with Gore criticizing intervention, crazy right?

    Trump will very easily put everything wrong with the Swamp on Biden. Largely because it's true. No way around it.
     
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  18. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    The bases are immovable, but the Dems try to chase 'Republican moderates' and Independents all the time by choosing a centrist candidate

    not working with Biden

     
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  19. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Quad B

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    Let's put aside your incessant nattering that I'm questioning your intent, since I generally am not. What's your mechanism? Since Sanders demonstrably cannot win the primary, how do you propose we should be choosing nominees such that he would be selected?
     
  20. cardgame

    cardgame Obsessively Opposed to the Typical

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    Stop being a tool of the electability self-fulfilling prophecy.

    Most people in Michigan want Bernie's policies. They voted Biden on the promise of electability. It's a sham. He isn't.
     
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