2020 US Election (Part Two)

[Ajidica]

Are you joking?
This is Harris.
She has no beliefs or honor.

Still, even with Harris as VP I think Biden can win, due to how ridiculous Trump is.
And win he must.

Yes, we all know your long-running issue with female politicians.

Hilarious name, also who the hell is that?

Atlanta mayor. I'm surprised you don't recognize the name because she's been in the news quite a bit over BLM stuff.

 

[Berzerker]

But it does seem that female politicians who act in the same way as many male politicians get far more vitriol directed at them.

People expect better from groups traditionally kept out of power. When they prove themselves just as corrupt its a let down. We also expect better from perceived allies, we condemn Saddam's crimes but when the people we support do nasty things their sins becomes ours. When that happens we either become defensive or even more angry.

 

[Kyriakos]

Yes, we all know your long-running issue with female politicians.

It's true that I was accused of supporting AOC and Tulsi, but other people just weren't intelligent enough to identify those aren't females. You, on the other hand.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Hilarious name, also who the hell is that?

I've folks in my family whose last name is "Butts", yes that's right. It's actually a pretty common southern last name in the US. No idea why, but I can see why she wanted to hyphenate and keep the "Lance" if her marriage would have made her name "Bottoms". I can also see that if her maiden name was actually "Bottoms" that she might want to keep it, given the stories I've heard from relatives about how much crap they took for being named "Butts". That kind of thing can potentially entrench you into the name, and make you reluctant to give it up, sort of feeling like you are giving in to the hecklers.

I've always wondered why the nominee of either party doesn't just pick whoever placed second in the primaries? I mean, in theory it would make the most sense in terms of maximizing the amount of votes you get since you would, again in theory, be bringing the number two candidate's supporters into your fold.

I agree and think its pure ego. You of course remember that our country used to give the VPOTUS slot to whoever came in second, ie lost the general election. But nowadays, the nominees don't want a "quarterback controversy" so they are reluctant to pick anyone who has the slightest potential of overshadowing them. I think that Hillary's VP pick was a textbook example of this. If she had picked Sanders for VP, I'm sure she would have won.

 

[Sommerswerd]

People expect better from groups traditionally kept out of power.

To the extent that this is true, its racism and/or sexism. What you're saying is that a female or minority politician has to do better than a white-male one to receive the same level of praise/acceptance. Was that your intention?

It's true that I was accused of supporting AOC and Tulsi, but other people just weren't intelligent enough to identify those aren't females.

Before this goes off the rails, which of course it absolutely will, I will point out that you find AOC and Tulsi Gabbard physically attractive, and it has been repeatedly pointed out by multiple folks that you apply a double standard to female politicians based on whether you find them physically attractive or not.

 

[Kyriakos]

To the extent that this is true, its racism and/or sexism. What you're saying is that a female or minority politician has to do better than a white-male one to receive the same level of praise/acceptance. Was that your intention? Before this goes off the rails, which of course it absolutely will, I will point out that you find AOC and Tulsi Gabbard physically attractive, and it has been repeatedly pointed out by multiple folks that you apply a double standard to female politicians based on whether you find them physically attractive or not.

I don't find AOC (edit: that) physically attractive. Her views are very good. The same for Nina Turner, I said here long ago she would be a great VP for Bernie.
Furthermore, I am sure it is a very bad idea to try to argue that your views are more logical. Your whole thing used to be/is that braindead politicians must be supported at all costs, just cause they are the democrat nomination. Now that I already said Biden must win, don't revert to other bizarre "but still" statements

 

[GenMarshall]

I’ve started to watch the David Pakman more often and one of his segment he aired not to long ago has to deal with our tarnished reputation amongst the world. It’s gotten me thinking that my only other choice in the election is voting for the lesser of two evils and that means moving towards voting for Biden (I was considering a third party vote, but that would equate to a defacto vote for Trump).

 

[Berzerker]

To the extent that this is true, its racism and/or sexism. What you're saying is that a female or minority politician has to do better than a white-male one to receive the same level of praise/acceptance. Was that your intention?

No, here's what I said:

People expect better from groups traditionally kept out of power. When they prove themselves just as corrupt its a let down. We also expect better from perceived allies, we condemn Saddam's crimes but when the people we support do nasty things their sins becomes ours. When that happens we either become defensive or even more angry.

They dont have to do better to earn the same praise (huh?), they need to do better because their supporters expect them to do better. When they dont do better, when they join the swamp instead, its like a dagger in the backs of their supporters.

If I voted for someone who was anti-war and they started a war I'd be more critical of them because of their betrayal. We're more forgiving of our friends' sins but we also expect better from them so the disappointment is worse when they fail. I didn't vote for Obama but I did expect a sane foreign policy, not even close. I'm sure some people supported Harris thinking a black woman as Atty Gen would bring a new, much needed perspective. They got another scumbag instead.

 

[AmazonQueen]

No, here's what I said:



They dont have to do better to earn the same praise (huh?), they need to do better because their supporters expect them to do better. When they dont do better, when they join the swamp instead, its like a dagger in the backs of their supporters.

If I voted for someone who was anti-war and they started a war I'd be more critical of them because of their betrayal. We're more forgiving of our friends' sins but we also expect better from them so the disappointment is worse when they fail. I didn't vote for Obama but I did expect a sane foreign policy, not even close. I'm sure some people supported Harris thinking a black woman as Atty Gen would bring a new, much needed perspective. They got another scumbag instead.

So why do the women and minorities get more criticism and abuse than the male sellouts? Also the abuse is hardly only from disappointed supporters.

 

[Kyriakos]

So why do the women and minorities get more criticism and abuse than the male sellouts? Also the abuse is hardly only from disappointed supporters.

Didn't you approve of Starmer's dismissal of RLB?
I don't think women or minorities get more flack when they behave as sellouts. Everyone gets flack (or doesn't, depending on other stuff). Kamala, for what it's worth, was shown very publicly, in the primaries, to be massively unpopular with the actual democrat crowd; makes little sense to expect she will cause non-negligible numbers of voters who wouldn't vote Biden, to vote democrat.
Btw, has the Biden announced the VP yet?

 

[AmazonQueen]

Didn't you approve of Starmer's dismissal of RLB?
I don't think women or minorities get more flack when they behave as sellouts. Everyone gets flack (or doesn't, depending on other stuff). Kamala, for what it's worth, was shown very publicly, in the primaries, to be massively unpopular with the actual democrat crowd; makes little sense to expect she will cause non-negligible numbers of voters who wouldn't vote Biden, to vote democrat.
Btw, has the Biden announced the VP yet?

Yes, she wasn't dismissed because she was a woman though.
Can you honestly claim woman and minorities don't get more flack when you look at how the Squad have been treated or how female and minority MPs receive far more abusive E-Mails including death and rape threats?

 

[Commodore]

Can you honestly claim woman and minorities don't get more flack when you look at how the Squad have been treated

The Squad get treated that way because of how they act, not because they are women. They are very confrontational and in-your-face with how they approach things. And as they say, every action will have an equal and opposite reaction. So if you are confrontational with people, expect those who oppose you to be confrontational with you.

 

[GenMarshall]

Btw, has the Biden announced the VP yet?

Leaves are still in the air and I honestly hope that there would be a VP that would immediately be ready to become president in the event the president becomes incapacitated and invokes the 25th amendment.

 

[Kyriakos]

Yes, she wasn't dismissed because she was a woman though.
Can you honestly claim woman and minorities don't get more flack when you look at how the Squad have been treated or how female and minority MPs receive far more abusive E-Mails including death and rape threats?

Fwiw, I support the squad. It's why I said that other reasons are primary for support or antipathy - political reasons ^_^

 

[Commodore]

Leaves are still in the air and I honestly hope that there would be a VP that would immediately be ready to become president in the event the president becomes incapacitated and invokes the 25th amendment.

Which is why who he selects is important. Everyone already assumes, if elected, that Biden isn't going to make it through his term so whoever he picks is going to be the real Democrat nominee. That means to get elected, Biden has to pick someone who appeals to voters since any votes for Biden are really just votes for his VP.

 

[AmazonQueen]

The Squad get treated that way because of how they act, not because they are women. They are very confrontational and in-your-face with how they approach things. And as they say, every action will have an equal and opposite reaction. So if you are confrontational with people, expect those who oppose you to be confrontational with you.

Really, how many white politicians born in the US have been told to go back to their own country?

 

[Commodore]

Really, how many white politicians born in the US have been told to go back to their own country?

Well Omar made comments about how terrible she thinks the US is. The common response to such things has always been "if you don't like it, then leave". And this has been said to plenty of white people, both politicians and not, who make similar remarks about the US.

So like I said, all the vitriol directed at The Squad is just a response to their own vitriol they spit at others.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Well Omar made comments about how terrible she thinks the US is. The common response to such things has always been "if you don't like it, then leave". And this has been said to plenty of white people, both politicians and not, who make similar remarks about the US.

So like I said, all the vitriol directed at The Squad is just a response to their own vitriol they spit at others.

He directed the remark to all the squad, not just Omar and he didn't say leave he said go back where they come from.
Examples please of it being said to white people born in the US.

 

[Gorbles]

The Squad get treated that way because of how they act, not because they are women. They are very confrontational and in-your-face with how they approach things. And as they say, every action will have an equal and opposite reaction. So if you are confrontational with people, expect those who oppose you to be confrontational with you.

From my limited experience in watching sessions of US politics, plus considerably more watching UK Parliament in session, "confrontational and in-your-face" is something a lot of the men do as well? Do you think they receive similar pushback for the same kind of attitude? Because I don't see that personally.

 

[Patine]

So why do the women and minorities get more criticism and abuse than the male sellouts? Also the abuse is hardly only from disappointed supporters.

Have you seen the ridiculous and horrible abuse Justin Trudeau, a cis straight white male from an affluent background, gets here in Canada for being disappointing - including some humour just as nasty as what some female and minority politician in the U.S.? And he's not even an ideological extremist, and certainly not a vitriolic, venomous, self-indulgent, falsehood-spewing, divisive, and incompetent loudmouth and narcissist (like Trump). That being said, I do agree it is a definite strong tendency (though not an absolute rule), and it does tend to be unfairly. But, it mostly tends to be largly the fault of the highly irresponsible media, a lot of which (ESPECIALLY in the U.S., FAR morese than any other First World Nation) has given up being actual "news," or "journalism," around the time Walter Cronkite retired, and is now a bunch of partisan fire-spitting propaganda machines. And thus, a lot of what is often casually quoted in these regards as "news stories," or "zeitgeist attitudes," in the U.S. often starts as talking points and screeds by self-serving bigots like Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Glen Back, Ann Coulter, Steve Bannon, etc.