2020 US Election (Part One)

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No you should vote you conscience. Just like Hygro did when voting for Hillary last election. What you should not do is expect Bernie supporters to be loyal to the party that betrayed him and continuously betray the American people with their lies and deceit.

On the one hand, this seems simply spiteful. On the other hand, it's spite deserved, and if Biden is nominated he's basically a Republican anyway, so... :idunno:
 
How is it so hard to understand that Bernie supporters are not a homogenous blob of democratic-flag-waving idiots ready to serve? Last national election many voted for Trump. Even more abstained from voting all together. DNC supporters only like Bernie supporters if they support their horsehockye nominee after they rigged the primaries in their favour. What the heck kind of idiots do they take social democrats for? It’s not like your base of happy-clappy know-nothing-liberals. If you’re so bloody keen on people voting broadly within the democrat sphere – you do it this time. You would clean house if moderate supporters for once in their silly lives turned a left.
 
Thank you for proving my point.
 
A bernie-bro who voted for Trump is not a reliable person to draw insight from.

Not as an individual, no, but as a cohort yes. There's a Venn Diagram of what swayed a Bernie supporter to Trump or rebelled them from Hillary. And it's not just 'moral failings'. There are things that Bernie would have fought for that Hillary wouldn't have.
 
How is it so hard to understand that Bernie supporters are not a homogenous blob of democratic-flag-waving idiots ready to serve? Last national election many voted for Trump. Even more abstained from voting all together. DNC supporters only like Bernie supporters if they support their ****e nominee after they rigged the primaries in their favour. What the heck kind of idiots do they take social democrats for? It’s not like your base of happy-clappy know-nothing-liberals. If you’re so bloody keen on people voting broadly within the democrat sphere – you do it this time. You would clean house if moderate supporters for once in their silly lives turned a left.

Well, it's pretty hard not to understand the idiots part because they are so demonstrative about it.
 
And you think Trump is fighting for any of those things?

That's not the same question as "Do they think he's fighting for these things". Figuring out which part of Trump's message resonated with Bernie supporters is not a lost cause. You either have to convince them that Trump lied about his support for those things (rather than just being stymied by 'the establishment') or figure out a Democratic candidate that won't lose them on these causes like Hillary did. Option A is seems easier for me, but I'm very biased against Trump.

Now, Hillary had a whole deck stacked against her in some ways. Maybe, with better message she wouldn't have lost them. I dunno. There's a whole spread of people who're trying to figure out if they're nationalists or liberals.
 
Naw, we need something more modern. Plus, oodles of that land is actually set aside intentionally. It's also not scalable. I'm pondering ways we could get the same benefits, but in a way that doesn't require ever-new lands to open up. Anyways, maybe I shouldn't have posted. I just look at homesteading, realizing that it was a one-off.
3D printable, stackable housing. The sky is the limit. ;)
 
I was looking more at the distribution of eastern land, circa revolutionary war...since that was what was being discussed. Everything that had been built under the authority of a colonial governor that was technically "crown property allowed to be used under colonial license" suddenly turned into personal wealth... through the minor hurdle of a little mass bloodshed.
Yes, but it's other people whose blood is shed. And i say is because it's the same concept applied to gun control, drug use, healthcare, foreign war, militarisation of police, massive surveillance, privatised gaols, and so on.
 
Nope and never. The absolute last thing Bernie should ever do again is support and make way for the anointed DNC candidate. This time he should not stand down or “worry”. It’s a miserable and infected party that needs disinfection, not unity, hugs and kisses - spreading the plague. Here’s the thing Cami – he doesn’t worry – you do – because unlike him you don’t have a moral high ground of already once standing aside and watch the rigged candidate have her ways. He made way for the disaster candidate last time and it ended in the misery you and other right wing DNC candidate supporters deserved.

Again, if Americans still want business as usual - they will let us know in the nomination race by going with Biden or Buttigeig or Harris. If Americans want change they will nominate Bernie. Should Bernie lose that race he can concede when it’s over. I also really hope he does not give whatever grinning fool the DNC greenlights any support after the race either. America needs a Biden as much or little as it needs Trump, which is not at all.
Skipping past a lot of the assumptions in here:

1) Are you suggesting Sanders doesn't actually care how many people vote for him in the primary, and doesn't actually care if he wins?
2) How does this apply if people are voting for e.g. Warren instead of Sanders?
 
Yes, but it's other people whose blood is shed. And i say is because it's the same concept applied to gun control, drug use, healthcare, foreign war, militarisation of police, massive surveillance, privatised gaols, and so on.
In a conversation about the creation of wealth the blood being shed always belongs to someone else.
 
Not as an individual, no, but as a cohort yes. There's a Venn Diagram of what swayed a Bernie supporter to Trump or rebelled them from Hillary. And it's not just 'moral failings'. There are things that Bernie would have fought for that Hillary wouldn't have.

The cohort of people who pretend to have ideology but don't even know what the word means?

If they can swing from Bernie to Trump then they can do anything. Nothing matters.
 
Can you create a matrix for why a group would have swung? A series of underlying factors?

It's fine that you want to deride them, it's trying to persuade them next time. But derision without understanding is very much why echo-chambers have gotten worse

I'm chastising because I think Trump will win in 2020 unless there's a significant improvement in the ability to communicate by liberals. And liberals haven't even hashed out if they want to beat Trump with a Centrist or a leftist nationalist.
 
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The whole fear that Bernie voters swung around to Trump, especially in the Rust Belt/Lakeside States, giving the presidency over to Trump was a bit overblown, wasn't it? Most did vote for Hillary. I think out of the 13mil Berniecrats, only 3 mil didn't vote/voted Trump/voted Stein/other.

It's that elections 'NADER AND THE GREENS HANDED FLORIDA OVER TO BUSH'. An excuse, basically, a scapegoat that avoids the other failings or factors that could had been different/targeted.
 
In a conversation about the creation of wealth the blood being shed always belongs to someone else.
The funniest part (defining ‘funny’ in the same sense as Vernon Dursley asking his nephew Harry about ‘funny business’) is the fact that, regardless of this concept, people actually bleed themselves.
It's that elections 'NADER AND THE GREENS HANDED FLORIDA OVER TO BUSH'. An excuse, basically, a scapegoat that avoids the other failings or factors that could had been different/targeted.
Such as state corruption and a complete lack of transparency in the ballot recount process.
 
Skipping past a lot of the assumptions in here:

1) Are you suggesting Sanders doesn't actually care how many people vote for him in the primary, and doesn't actually care if he wins?
2) How does this apply if people are voting for e.g. Warren instead of Sanders?

1. In a big sense yes. Yes I do. You see if you actually listen to the man instead of dismissing him as too old and too left from the get go, and if you are at least somewhat familiar with the concept of “manufacturing consent” in America (Chomsky, 1988) you would know that Bernie isn’t about winning elections so much as winning back the mind and decency of the American people. You constantly underestimate him as some fringe lefty when he is actually the only one in the field (save parts of EW) with a program and a vision outside the American media echo chamber. An echo chamber where democracy is a game. Just the other day Alyssa Milano (heavyweight democrat thinker) was on CNN almost in tears about the need to get rid of Trump for her children and the future. No objections so far. In the background they had a picture after picture of Biden, waving at people, hugging people, grinning at people, (grouping people). The panel discussion was completely manufactured around the “fact” Biden is the only realistic choice. That’s the DNC’s work. Unlike republicans they still think it’s possible, maybe even preferable to micro manage their constituents like a flock of sheep. That’s why they are even able to lose to Trump. And sadly by most evidence shown in this thread they still have enough of "sheep" in their fold to hazard it will maybe work this time around as opposed to all evidence last time around. So in conclusion for point 1: I think Bernie is more focus on building a solid grass roots base for future generations and winning the war on ignorance rather than this particular battle (election) you, Alyssa, and the tubby Tims and the tibby Toms are focused on like lasers. (To the total exclusion I might add; of reading up on the issues and actual policy because that would require research and a cognitive effort as opposed to finding the most central place in the flood of media trained lemmings - shouting the cheap slogans MSM so readily provide. Blaming Russians for rigging the election via facebook and google; are you kidding me? That Mueller basket is where you want to lay you eggs? 99,99999999999999% of the rigging is done in America by Americans. But you know, it feels better in a cheap, skin deep Clintonian way to put the blame on them, doesn’t it?)


2. You know. I was about to put Warren in with Bernie. She kind of deserves to be. She is in many aspects better than him in explaining fundamental parts of their shared policy. Should EW win the nomination Bernie will rightfully endorse her. Again if you actually listen to Bernie he has already alluded to EW being at the top of his list for potential VPs. But the main stream media cannot help themselves crying AGE ISSUE and the usual suspects abide. EW and Bernie are good friends and so should their supporters be. I see no reason not to. The only problem here is many EW supporters would also be quite hostile to the Bernie supporters not falling in line when the DNC has finished rigging their candidate into national elections.Which is a shame.
 
@Ironsided

So, I can't quite place your argument. Are you saying "Bernie lost even though he has the policy position most people want because the primary was rigged against him" or are you saying "sure, Bernie supporters are a small slice that can't carry an election but that's just because the majority are stupid/lazy/whatever"? I think both positions are absolutely Trumpian, but I'm not sure which one to take you to task for. Please clarify.
 
Read again. I’m saying Bernie has a policy position that is a million times clearer than say Biden, Butts or Harris - which still seems to be mainly “smiles and not Trump”. And I would advise you to first clarify your own position if you even have one? Then try to build on that instead of being a predictable childish prick in discussions. When you have provided your choice of nominee to support so far and a base of original thoughts to back them up I will look aside from your silly attempts to frame any narrative to yours and give you the benefit of a doubt and honest answers. I’m off to relatives now so you have the whole day (Euro time).
 
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