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2020 US Election

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Lexicus, Nov 13, 2018.

  1. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    @Ironsided - I certainly think Sanders wants to change minds, but I also think he has more conviction than you give him credit for, and wants to take a path that will lead to the more immediate implementation of his policy. That's the most logical explanation for his endorsement of Clinton - that he saw it as the most pragmatic way to further his policy objectives in the short term (whereas some Sanders supporters thought it would've been better long term strategy to stay more perfectly consistent and avoid an embrace of the Democratic establishment). In the case of this election, he entered the race when e.g. Elizabeth Warren had already announced and when many of his own policies had been widely adopted by other candidates. It was unnecessary for Sanders to enter the race in order to change minds and promote his world view. Indeed, in many ways he could have exerted more influence on the party through staying out the race, leaving his potential endorsement or approval as a huge carrot for other candidates to chase. Rather, it must be the case that Sanders wishes to be the person to carry forward what he is promoting, perhaps because he thinks other Democrats like Harris & Booker can't actually be trusted to fight for things like universal healthcare. If that is so, then he cannot be terribly impressed with his own current polling. I would very much doubt his response to it would be, "well I don't want to win anyway", and if it were, then I guess it means we have already passed the point I was seeking identification of in my original post.

    I also just want to clarify the 'you' you're employing in your post. I'm assuming it's a generalised plural, as for starters, I'm not American.
     
  2. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    Yeah...sorry...you haven't done anything yet that indicates you are worth the time to give you a nuanced post. If there's anyone else who hasn't figured out where I stand on most things based on the encyclopedia of opinions I've posted over the years have them ask.
     
  3. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    The state governments retained the property of the former colonial governments, which they regarded themselves as legally identical to. It wasn't turned over to private hands, because why on Earth would it be? This wasn't an Old World monarchy, there weren't any great royal estates to break up. Land policy was by definition Western land policy, because that was the only land as-yet undisposed of.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2019
  4. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    I am pretty sure that most dem establishment would rather have Trump win in 2020 than Bernie become potus.
    "Sad!" :)
     
  5. Ironsided

    Ironsided Flower of happiness

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    @Camikaze

    I, the personal me, think Sanders not only has more conviction then the rest of the democratic field put together, he also has more policy on offer, and I think he has enough drive to spare on a larger vision and agenda than just winning the election 2020. (Want to be dead certain – ask Bernie.) Do you understand what I’m saying now? More, because he provide more. In fact I think you as a voter should demand exactly that from all politicians. And by you I mean the royal you. (Your Avatar says Sydney so assuming you, the personal you, is American would not make sense.)

    I, the personal I, think Bernie should not endorse when the DNC nominee is rigged into being the democratic candidate. Bernie probably will endorse the nominee like he did with Clinton because he is a nice guy, a leader and a professional. I, as in me, on the other hand have none of those ambitions and will be spiteful and vengeful towards the corrupt cesspool that is the Democratic Party.

    Also, what exactly is your problem with Bernie’s polling? Isn't he polling better against Biden than Obama did against Clinton before Iowa? Unless maybe you go by the latest publicised CNN poll that conveniently excluded all millennials and most GenX and was basically a poll on voters aged 45 and up with a majority sample over age 65. Not only Fox trade in fake news you know.
     
    El_Machinae likes this.
  6. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    [citation needed]
     
  7. cardgame

    cardgame Sensual Kitten

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    The citation is how hard they're pushing Biden and minimizing Bernie.
     
  8. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    That has been stated before, but to say that they'd rather Trump won… I know that many party leaders are disconencted from the voter base, yes, but that still doesn't mean they want the Donald to win.
     
  9. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    In 2016 you had another dem money-man threaten to run in the general election as an independent if Bernie got the dem nomination. I think it is pretty clear he would do so not out of hope he would himself win the general elections :)
     
  10. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    As usual, the best way to see what someone feels guilty about is to look at what accusations they make. The Bernie supporters who said "well, if we can't have Bernie may as well have Trump" are now slinging the accusation at anyone and everyone. Fact is that I thought Sanders was the only candidate the Democrats could find in 2016 who was really similar to Trump, and I think he is the most like Trump in the field today, and that is why he gets similar support. The disaffected fringe of the GOP took over the party, and now the disaffected fringe of the Democratic party wants to do the same thing.
     
  11. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Then again

    pretty much shows that the dem establishment preferred to save itself even if it meant losing the election. Which is what happened anyway - though not with Bernie nominated :)
     
  12. Owen Glyndwr

    Owen Glyndwr La Femme Moderne

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    For a liberal, a fellow liberal is always preferable to a Social Democrat. And for any non-socialist, rioting/fascism is always preferable to a genuine socialist.

    The recent treatment of Bernie, AOC, and Ilhan Omar obviously falls into the former category.
     
    Traitorfish likes this.
  13. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    You do realize that every four years there is someone talking about how they will run as an independent if they don't get their way, and no one ever actually does it, right?
     
  14. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    up yours!
    Bernie Sanders, AOC, and Ilhan Omar are socialists. Ah-ha.
     
  15. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    As I've said before the Democratic elite would rather see Trump remain in power than a successful Bernie campaign for President because Trump doesn't threaten their careers the way Bernie's model of politics does. I think most Democrats do sincerely prefer Bernie's policies to those of the Republicans, but those policies need to be accomplished via the current Democrat leadership's preferred model of politics.
     
    Traitorfish likes this.
  16. Berzerker

    Berzerker Warlord

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    Like 'observing' how tens of millions of people need to be killed for the good of the country and then accusing other people of trolling?
     
  17. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    Based on what evidence? Acts done in denial, blatant self-service, and unexplained stupidity do not constitute such evidence. That's all politics as usual.

    J
     
  18. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    • Infracted for flaming
    No, like the way the Bernie supporters are casting about for people they can accuse of "rather see Trump re-elected if Bernie gets the nomination" because their own "well, if I can't have Bernie i just won't vote" has gone so terribly off the rails. But never let it be said that when you go trolling for hatred I let you go away empty handed, scumbag.

    Moderator Action: Calling someone a scumbag is flaming. Please do not do this. --LM
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 5, 2019
  19. Berzerker

    Berzerker Warlord

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    When you trolled Breitbart did you ever 'observe' the need to execute conservatives?
     
  20. metatron

    metatron unperson

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    What again were the two elections Democrats were most reliably whining about before Trump happened to them?
    Right, that would be 1980 and 2000.

    Yeah, good thing there was no spoiling by people in the business of urgent way-getting going on in either of those... :whew:
     

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