2020 US Election (Part One)

[Sommerswerd]

I would be shocked if several people are not indicted, likely before July 4th. Comey looks likely but probably not that fast. However, every signer of the FISA warrant applications, including the renewals, could be on the hook for multiple felony counts. The names of people directly implicated include Comey, Clapper, Lynch, Yates, McCabe, and Rosenstein. There will be dozens of lower level people involved.

I'd love to see every person on that list get indicted... for numerous reasons.

 

[Takhisis]

I will reply in a new thread. While this has serious implications for the 2020 election, it is a different subject.

This is not the first time you've said you'll be answering in another thread. Where is that thread?

 

[JollyRoger]

I would be shocked if several people are not indicted, likely before July 4th.

J

I don't see a reasonable basis for it.

 

[Ajidica]

many of these so called Republicans would not be in their current position if they had learned not to accept so called intelligence from the British after 2003
so yeah it's a pity...

It was the US that leaned on the Brits and Blair to produce the "dodgy dossier" even as British military intelligence was telling Blair invading Iraq would be a terrible idea on any level.

 

[Old Hippy]

It was the US that leaned on the Brits and Blair to produce the "dodgy dossier" even as British military intelligence was telling Blair invading Iraq would be a terrible idea on any level.

so its still a pity that the US leaned on the Brits to produce a Dodgy Dossier... my point being don't rely on the Brits unless you want a 'Dodgy Dossier'.. yet here we are all these years later and the is US relying on a dodgy dossier

 

[Ajidica]

so its still a pity that the US leaned on the Brits to produce a Dodgy Dossier... my point being don't rely on the Brits unless you want a 'Dodgy Dossier'.. yet here we are all these years later and the is US relying on a dodgy dossier

Care to specify which 'dodgy dossier' the US security services got from the Brits that we are now currently relying on? My opinion on the quality of the British security services outside of GCHQ is quite low*, but that doesn't mean all of their stuff is rubbish.

*As an Aussie, you should be old enough to remember Spycatcher and Peter Wright from the 1980s.
EDIT: Huh, turns out your former PM, Turnbull, defended Wright when the British state and government tried to shut Wright up. Small world.

 

[Old Hippy]

Care to specify which 'dodgy dossier' the US security services got from the Brits that we are now currently relying on? My opinion on the quality of the British security services outside of GCHQ is quite low, but that doesn't mean all of their stuff is rubbish.

The Steele dossier... that Steele no longer stands behind... along with Comey(FBI) and Brennan (CIA) who are blaming each other for all the stuff that turned out to be rubbish

*edit*As an Aussie, you should be old enough to remember Spycatcher and Peter Wright from the 1980s.
EDIT: Huh, turns out your former PM, Turnbull, defended Wright when the British state and government tried to shut Wright up. Small world.

small world .. today is election day and I am on record as wanting the left wing Labor party to win
the point that a MI6 agent peter Wright can not be Trusted by the British Government is only more reason to double check... even triple check anything that MI6 agents sell
by the way it was a good book...

 

[Ajidica]

A counterintelligence investigation (which, it must be stated, is NOT a criminal investigation) was open into potential links between the Trump campaign and the Russian government before Christopher Steele ever handed over his collection of rumors and innuendo over to the FBI. Based on congressional testimony and FOIA requests, it has been pretty clearly established Steele informed the FBI that he considered it to be unverified (unverified != untrue in intelligence matters). Comey, as part of his job, briefed Trump on the outlines of investigation and the more 'exciting' rumors in the dossier.* Trump then started asking Comey for personal loyalty and when Comey refused to give it, Trump pulled a Henry II and started asking "Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest FBI Director?" with predictable results.

*Would you prefer security services not let presidents know in broad details ongoing investigations that could touch on them? It was crap like that which Wright and his ilk were using to wreck the Wilson government.

Also, no memory of the Wright affair? I was under the impression it was pretty big news in the UK and Australia back in the 80s.
Tricksy hobbits edited it in after I posted! Also, Wright was MI5.
I do find it funny that Wright called his book 'Spycatcher' even though he failed to actually catch any spies!

 

[Old Hippy]

.

Also, no memory of the Wright affair? I was under the impression it was pretty big news in the UK and Australia back in the 80s.

re your edit... see my edit

 

[Estebonrober]

All this hand wringing and popcorn eating is going to be pretty depressing for you when these inspectors turn around and state that basically it was fine on its merit as a counter intelligence investigation. I mean if I have to go on Republican wishes to indict Obama and Clinton cabinet members its been almost 30 years a gnashing of teeth to no avail. So I'm not holding my breath J and Hippy. Whens all these reports coming out again? Next week?

 

[onejayhawk]

I'd love to see every person on that list get indicted... for numerous reasons.

:sigh: I doubt that happens. Comey has spoken many times of having missions. I would like to see whoever tasked him get at least grilled.

A counterintelligence investigation (which, it must be stated, is NOT a criminal investigation) was open into potential links between the Trump campaign and the Russian government before Christopher Steele ever handed over his collection of rumors and innuendo over to the FBI. Based on congressional testimony and FOIA requests, it has been pretty clearly established Steele informed the FBI that he considered it to be unverified (unverified != untrue in intelligence matters). Comey, as part of his job, briefed Trump on the outlines of investigation and the more 'exciting' rumors in the dossier.* Trump then started asking Comey for personal loyalty and when Comey refused to give it, Trump pulled a Henry II and started asking "Who will rid me of this meddlesome priest FBI Director?" with predictable results.

*Would you prefer security services not let presidents know in broad details ongoing investigations that could touch on them? It was crap like that which Wright and his ilk were using to wreck the Wilson government.

Also, no memory of the Wright affair? I was under the impression it was pretty big news in the UK and Australia back in the 80s.
Tricksy hobbits edited it in after I posted! Also, Wright was MI5.
I do find it funny that Wright called his book 'Spycatcher' even though he failed to actually catch any spies!

The investigation never had anything but the dossier. Still doesn't, see Mueller report.

I don't see a reasonable basis for it.

So you said. Lying under oath would do it. The FISA application part is very straight forward and is much more troubling than the original Watergate break in. That appears to be the portion of the ice above water.

All this hand wringing and popcorn eating is going to be pretty depressing for you when these inspectors turn around and state that basically it was fine on its merit as a counter intelligence investigation. I mean if I have to go on Republican wishes to indict Obama and Clinton cabinet members its been almost 30 years a gnashing of teeth to no avail. So I'm not holding my breath J and Hippy. Whens all these reports coming out again? Next week?

What reports? The IG report will come when it's ready. No one knowledgeable is even speculating. The US Attorney does not give reports except to the AG. That may become public, but more likely Grand Juries will be the tip off.

J

 

[Berzerker]

I suspect this is just the tip of the iceberg regarding FISA warrants. The only reason we're finding out about this is because the guy they were spying on became President. Imagine how many innocent people get 'investigated' and neither the politicians or their media outlets gives a rat's patootie. Albeit this case is much more important given the added political dimension. The Democrats used the FBI and the extra-judicial surveillance apparatus to go after Trump and Barr wants to look into what happened. But now the Democrats dont want to investigate to find out... shocking.

Edit: I'm watching Ali Velshi filling in for Rachel Maddow on MSNBC. He showed clips of Trump judicial nominees declining to answer if Brown v Education (my home town) was constitutional. Ali asks, do these people believe in separate but equal? If they answered wouldn't they be obliged to answer every other question on the constitutionality of prior decisions like Roe etc? Thats not journalism, Ali, its hypocritical propaganda. If these were Obama's nominees declining to answer Ali would be defending them.

 

[Old Hippy]

All this hand wringing and popcorn eating is going to be pretty depressing for you when these inspectors turn around and state that basically it was fine on its merit as a counter intelligence investigation. I mean if I have to go on Republican wishes to indict Obama and Clinton cabinet members its been almost 30 years a gnashing of teeth to no avail. So I'm not holding my breath J and Hippy. Whens all these reports coming out again? Next week?

soon if you kept in touch with faux news you would know that their are signs to look for...like and the fact that this week many senators have been discussing the process

At the request of a number of committees of Congress, and for reasons of transparency, the President has directed the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the Department of Justice (including the FBI) to provide for the immediate declassification of the following materials: (1) pages 10-12 and 17-34 of the June 2017 application to the FISA court in the matter of Carter W. Page; (2) all FBI reports of interviews with Bruce G. Ohr prepared in connection with the Russia investigation; and (3) all FBI reports of interviews prepared in connection with all Carter Page FISA applications.

In addition, President Donald J. Trump has directed the Department of Justice (including the FBI) to publicly release all text messages relating to the Russia investigation, without redaction, of James Comey, Andrew McCabe, Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, and Bruce Ohr.

if you are going to follow due procedure you have to gather all the documents together in a SCIF allow the gang of 8 to have input on the contents then when they have made comment
POTUS can declassify them or he could just do it at a whim for the LOLs
would really like to be a fly on the wall... cause Pelosi and Schumer are part of the gang of 8 my bet is its done before the IG report so it can be included in that report and made Public

 

[Berzerker]

I have to admit I enjoy watching the House Dems and Senate Repubs investigating each other, seems like the only way to slow the corruption in both parties.

 

[Old Hippy]

@Berzerker
I like seeing them come out with toy chickens as a counter...
did you see the Barr interview where he confirmed saying " did you bring your handcuffs" ... to pelosi as a ice breaker

 

[Berzerker]

I didn't see Barr, but I did see the guy (Cohen D-Tenn) eating KFC and then apologizing for his racial insensitivity...

 

[Ajidica]

The investigation never had anything but the dossier. Still doesn't, see Mueller report.

I've read the Mueller report - the whole 400 pages. (Incidentally, it was a great way to spend my Easter weekend!) Mueller references the Steele allegations only in passing at the end in describing the narrative of relations between Comey and Trump. Mueller made it quite clear that the original investigation began as a counterintelligence investigation with the hacking of the DNC and emails being laundered through Wikileaks.

 

[Berzerker]

The original investigation supposedly began with Papadopoulus telling a foreign diplomat the Russians had dirt on Hillary. The FBI wanted to know why he knew that. The question Barr is looking into is how that investigation came to focus on Carter Page, what role the dossier had in obtaining a warrant to spy on him and whether or not Steele's partisan agenda was fully disclosed to the judge issuing the warrant. I'd like to know that too.

 

[Camikaze]

Moderator Action: There is a "Postmortem on Mueller" thread. Please use it if you want to discuss the Mueller report or investigation, as distinct from the 2020 election. Please keep the discussion in this thread more closely linked to the topic.

 

[Berzerker]

Watching Biden now, he needs to cut down on using "folks" to address the crowd. Otherwise the speech isn't bad. I thought he was going by memory until MSNBC showed a more distant shot and I could see the teleprompters. A few verbal stumbles, the occasional BS, but he just comes off more personable than Hillary and most of his competition for 2020. I dont think Bernie can beat him even if other people drop from the race, Biden's got strong support from black voters mostly because he was Obama's VP and Bernie doesn't. If someone's gonna challenge Biden from the left they need to win that key constituency.

Damn, just remembered the PGA Championship is on. Why am I wasting time watching Biden talk.

Moderator Action: <snip>