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2020 US Election

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Lexicus, Nov 13, 2018.

  1. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    Moderator Action: Off-topic posts removed. If you want to discuss the details of the Mueller investigation or report, do so in the appropriate thread.

    Obviously almost every political topic will have some tangential connection to the 2020 election, but that doesn't mean you should be using this thread to run down every possible rabbit hole. Please ensure that when you do bring up side topics, they are related back to the 2020 election.

    For example, a post talking about how the Mueller report will impact upon the 2020 election is perfectly on topic (e.g. "I think the Mueller report will be detrimental to the Democratic/Republican chances in 2020"). But a post arguing about what the outcome of the Mueller investigation was (e.g. "Mueller found/didn't find Trump had committed obstruction of justice"), is more appropriate for another thread.
     
  2. Zkribbler

    Zkribbler Warlord

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    I was delightfully surprised by Buttigieg's town hall on Fox. He was articulate and intelligent. Following Inslee, he's the second of these guys I could vote for. :hug:
     
  3. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    Mayor Pete is the one Democrat with the kind of charisma it takes to win. However, his obstacles are very significant. Not least is his age but his willingness to talk openly about faith is another big one among Democrats.

    J
     
  4. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Warlord

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    People on the right often over estimate this effect on the left. It's not as big a deal as your side fear mongers to each other. Believe it or not there are a lot of spiritual liberals.
     
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  5. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    Granted, but also the bulk of anti-faith and anti-church people.

    Fear mongers are everywhere, so no distinction there, just different things to fear. For example, Democrats fear catastrophic global warming while Republicans fear losing the right to own guns or land. It was not long ago that Democrats feared being overrun by illegal immigrants.

    J
     
  6. Estebonrober

    Estebonrober Warlord

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    Of course worst case scenario on loosing gun rights is we are subjected to government tyranny for a thousand years. Worst case scenario on run away global warming is earth turns into Venus. . .so perspective of nightmare tends to matter. Also yes dems and repubs swapped positions on immigration just like they swapped on practicing racist policies and rhetoric. . .I wonder if there is a correlation?. . .:mischief:
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2019
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  7. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    Both are equally unlikely. That's a pretty solid correlation.

    Your second sentence makes no sense. Republicans have been consistent while the Democrats did a 180° switch. Does your imoticon indicate you are trying to level an unjustified accusation?

    J
     
  8. Takhisis

    Takhisis is it fall yet

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    Why? Do you think we have the potential to make the Earth resemble Mercury instead?
     
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  9. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    That seems like a fair and even-handed way of describing secularism, sure.
     
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  10. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    That crap is so stupid it's not even worth responding to. Obama talked about his faith in public all the time! But of course J believes he was a secret Muslamic atheo-communist so what are you gonna do?
     
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  11. Berzerker

    Berzerker Warlord

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    I thought he was describing ardent atheists
     
  12. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    It is interesting if people of the mainstream right suspect that the mainstream left is anti-religious. It's a communication problem.

    It's better seen as being resistant to the idea that certain right wing ideas are okay if they're dressed up under a faith. People have a heck of a time not mixing the two, their faith and their political views
     
  13. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    Funny, I was going to argue that since J is a compulsive liar who lives more than half in a fantasy world, he probably isn't the fairest example for "mainstream right" but you know what? He totally is "mainstream right."

    Anyway, you know perfectly well it's not a "communication problem" but another manifestation of the increasingly dangerous fantasies in which the right is immersed. It's not possible to honestly believe that publicly-displayed religious faith is a problem for a Democratic candidate for national office, it's just totally ridiculous. And J knows this perfectly well, he's just lying as usual to confuse people and piss them off. It also feeds into the whole "telling me I can't persecute people is persecuting me" that the right in the US has been engaged in ever since an antislavery electoral majority looked like it might emerge in the northern states.

    How would it even be possible to not mix the two?
     
  14. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    That's not happening either.

    My bad. Second point but third sentence.

    It's the logical converse. The left has a near monopoly on the anti-religious bloc. So, it is not that the left is anti-religious but that anyone anti-religious is from the left. It's like gun rights. Not that conservatives are gun rights activists but gun rights activists are conservative.

    I might be mainstream, barely. Certinly, I am conservative on money matters and I favor smaller government as the default option. However, I'm well toward the left bank of the river. Conservatives don't agree with me on immigration, legal drugs, abortion, and I don't really care much about guns.

    Some people believe that faith dictates many political positions. Certainly, that idea was common among the founders. Yet, faith has little to do with property rights or national security concerns, so it is not any more monolithic than anti-faith is in the left. That said, it is important to note that one party supports the free exercise of religion much more than the other.

    J
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  15. Berzerker

    Berzerker Warlord

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    I've watched Bill Maher criticize religion for over 2 decades to applauding audiences so it is a problem. If a race was between 2 Democrats with 1 being openly religious and the other openly atheist, who do you think Bill Maher would vote for?
     
  16. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

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    FTFY
     
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  17. Berzerker

    Berzerker Warlord

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    Neither party is very good on that front, the war on drugs doesn't have exemptions for religion except for Indian peyote practices and that was a struggle (RFRA).
     
  18. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    Meh. That is bureaucratic more than political. Exemptions for burial practices are common, for example.

    J
     
  19. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    Does "anti-church people" include anti-mosque people and anti-synagogue people? Cause those folks are mostly Conservatives, etc.

    Does "anti-faith people" include Anti-Islam/Anti-Muslim people? Cause again... that's more a Conservative/Republican thing.

    Or was Christianity the only thing that counted as "faith" and "church" and "religious freedom" in your mind?
     
  20. Lexicus

    Lexicus Warlord

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    You misinterpreted me. I don't believe that there is any kind of correspondence between political positions and religious faith. What I'm saying is it's ridiculous to expect persons of sincere religious faith not to understand politics in terms of that faith, and not to let their faith inform their political positions, whatever those happen to be.

    Yeah, for example the conservative justices on the Supreme Court recently denied a death row inmate in Alabama the right to have an imam present while he was executed. Radical right-wing terrorists who are fans of Donald Trump have also murdered worshipers at mosques and synagogues to prevent people from freely exercising their religion.
     
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