2020 US Election (Part One)

[Lexicus]

That's just campaign speak in my opinion. Do you really think the Dems in Congress will fall for that crap again? They'll be out for revenge.

What on Earth makes you think it's campaign speak? What in Biden's historical record or current demeanor makes you think he will suddenly play hardball with the Republicans if he wins the election?

And yes, I do think the "moderate" Democrats in Cognress will "fall for that crap again," except they're not "falling for" anything, they want to work with Republicans because they share many of the same goals as the Republicans, which makes perfect sense because they serve the same class forces. Biden even said that if he wins the election "nothing will fundamentally change."

 

[Tristan_C]

He's trying to stoke fear, he's implying immigrants are more likely to rapists. And that "Mexico is sending them", no ones sending them, they are coming, seeking a better life. They are statistically less criminal than natives iirc.

The stat comes from a Cato Institute study of a prison in Arizona where the legal status of the inmates was not even checked methodically, since the prison did not wish to have any unnecessary paperwork with ICE. There is no other data available, but intuitively, the level of gang involvement in getting flesh and drugs across the border, as well as the relative poverty of illegal immigrants, makes this an awfully unrealistic assumption.

 

[rah]

Lex, you may be right, but
I firmly believe the days of compromise are over. It's party line politics for the foreseeable future.
The will pretend, but in the end it will be vote by party.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Lex, you may be right, but
I firmly believe the days of compromise are over. It's party line politics for the foreseeable future.
The will pretend, but in the end it will be vote by party.

I'm not convinced that Biden will be a good choice.
I doubt he has the energy and conviction to lead a fightback against the Republicans who since Gingrich at least have fought very dirty.
I also can't see him attracting support from across the spectrum. He might win back some conservatives disgusted with Trump but I can't see him getting the minorities or the young out.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I'm not convinced that Biden will be a good choice.
I doubt he has the energy and conviction to lead a fightback against the Republicans who since Gingrich at least have fought very dirty.
I also can't see him attracting support from across the spectrum. He might win back some conservatives disgusted with Trump but I can't see him getting the minorities or the young out.

Then the minorities and the young need to learn that it isn't the candidates job to "get them out." Republicans have been turning out for decades to vote against the Democrat, any Democrat. If Donald Trump isn't enough to drive Democrat turnout then Democrats deserve whatever they get.

 

[Lexicus]

Then the minorities and the young need to learn that it isn't the candidates job to "get them out." Republicans have been turning out for decades to vote against the Democrat, any Democrat. If Donald Trump isn't enough to drive Democrat turnout then Democrats deserve whatever they get.

Funny because I think Democrats who take the attitude "it's not the candidate's job to persuade people to vote for them" deserve to lose, and will certainly lose.

 

[Zardnaar]

It's also a big assumption assuming people who don't vote will vote democratic.

People either don't care or don't like your party either.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Funny because I think Democrats who take the attitude "it's not the candidate's job to persuade people to vote for them" deserve to lose, and will certainly lose.

Depends on what you mean by "persuade people to vote for them." Republicans, throughout my long life, have looked at one thing their candidate said and said "okay, I agree with that so I'm in." Democrats, throughout that same long life, have famously said "I agree with almost every word that comes out of their mouth, but thirty years ago at a rally attended by seventeen people when he was running for junior class president he said something that would be insensitive if it was said today, and he should have known better so I'll just stay home."

 

[Narz]

Then the minorities and the young need to learn that it isn't the candidates job to "get them out." Republicans have been turning out for decades to vote against the Democrat, any Democrat. If Donald Trump isn't enough to drive Democrat turnout then Democrats deserve whatever they get.

"Anyone but Trump" is a very weak argument.

I will probably vote for Biden if I must (but not for Harris) but going for safe/good-enuf candidates didn't work in 2016 and it won't work now (and didnt work for the Republicans in 2012 btw)

 

[Timsup2nothin]

"Anyone but Trump" is a very weak argument.

Then you deserve four more years of Trump, and I hope he makes them as painful for you personally as they could possibly be.

 

[Narz]

Then you deserve four more years of Trump, and I hope he makes them as painful for you personally as they could possibly be.

Seek therapy

 

[Lexicus]

Depends on what you mean by "persuade people to vote for them." Republicans, throughout my long life, have looked at one thing their candidate said and said "okay, I agree with that so I'm in." Democrats, throughout that same long life, have famously said "I agree with almost every word that comes out of their mouth, but thirty years ago at a rally attended by seventeen people when he was running for junior class president he said something that would be insensitive if it was said today, and he should have known better so I'll just stay home."

If I'm hurting under Donald Trump why should I vote for a man who says if he wins "nothing will fundamentally change"? Why should I vote for a man who says he "has no empathy" for the issues faced by my generation?

 

[Narz]

If I'm hurting under Donald Trump why should I vote for a man who says if he wins "nothing will fundamentally change"? Why should I vote for a man who says he "has no empathy" for the issues faced by my generation?

Word. According to Tim attention to nuance makes us weak. We should just always vote for our guy, just cuz he's our guy.

In reality no one ever wins because they are the lesser of two evils. They win because they excite the base. And when they disappoint (as Obama did) exciting the base is even more relevant.

 

[El_Machinae]

A large number of Republicans voted for Trump in 2016 because he was the lesser of two evils.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

A large number of Republicans voted for Trump in 2016 because he was the lesser of two evils.

Republicans always vote, and unless something extraordinary happens they will choose to vote for the Republican. Only Democrats have to be pleaded with to vote in the first place.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Seek therapy

Why? For suggesting that you suffer the consequences of your actions? Why shouldn't you?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

If I'm hurting under Donald Trump why should I vote for a man who says if he wins "nothing will fundamentally change"? Why should I vote for a man who says he "has no empathy" for the issues faced by my generation?

Because the worst of the Democrats is going to be light years ahead of the Republicans (and Trump in particular) on almost every issue you care about, even if they don't go far enough.

And at the end of the day this isn't a typical election; I truly believe this one is make-or-break for the very idea of a representative democracy in this country though I concede it's probably too late.

 

[Narz]

Why? For suggesting that you suffer the consequences of your actions? Why shouldn't you?

For being so vitriolic over a difference of opinion on an internet forum.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Then the minorities and the young need to learn that it isn't the candidates job to "get them out." Republicans have been turning out for decades to vote against the Democrat, any Democrat. If Donald Trump isn't enough to drive Democrat turnout then Democrats deserve whatever they get.

If it isn't a candidates job to convince people they are worth voting for and will actually deliver for them what is their job?
I'd say its about time the Democrats stopped believing themselves entitled to votes and started earning them, but before they can do that they will have to pick a candidate who appeals to more than just disillusioned republicans.

 

[rah]

unless something extraordinary happens they will choose to vote for the Republican.

extraordinary happening
Trump
Romney
Bush (second time around)
Dole.
Just to name the most recent ones that had me not voting for the Republican.