2020 US Election (Part One)

[hobbsyoyo]

Ding ding ding! We have a winnah!

He can wait out the statutes on most (all?) of his crimes if he gets re-elected and they decide they have to wait until he's no longer president to indict him. Or at the least he gets 4 more years of freedom.

I don't think he needs another 4 years to convince himself he was the best president ever and take that to his grave. And monetize the crap out of it by marketing himself to MAGA chuds and hitting the huckster speaking circuit (which he has been on before) and probably doing campaign-style rallies for fun.

But he doesn't want to go to prison with the rest of them.

All of the articles I have read about Trump potential indictments say the statute of limitations won't start running until he is out of office.

I don't think losing in 2020 hurts his folk-hero-like status among his ardent supporters one bit. In fact I think losing in 2020 is just one more way he becomes a martyr to their cause (with impeachment/removal being another). Losing the election will just cause his supporters to say that the election was rigged by China, Russia, "the media", etc., and cause them to bemoan the deep state conspiracy against their guy. The only difference... which is actually quite meaningful I'd think... is that they won't be able to characterise an election (as opposed to impeachment/removal) as a coup-d'etat. I think that is critical to give us the maximum chance of a peaceful transition of power.

My concern is that impeachment/removal just carries a higher risk of violence, shootings and worse... with people feeling like the Presidency was stolen from them. Trump has already done the thing he does where he quite transparently calls for something to happen by coyly "predicting" that it will happen... whereby he "predicted" that there would be violent reprisals if he were impeached.

I'm with @Hygro.

 

[cardgame]

People should feel like the presidency was stolen from them... it was.

 

[Phrossack]

I don't think losing in 2020 hurts his folk-hero-like status among his ardent supporters one bit. In fact I think losing in 2020 is just one more way he becomes a martyr to their cause (with impeachment/removal being another). Losing the election will just cause his supporters to say that the election was rigged by China, Russia, "the media", etc., and cause them to bemoan the deep state conspiracy against their guy. The only difference... which is actually quite meaningful I'd think... is that they won't be able to characterise an election (as opposed to impeachment/removal) as a coup-d'etat. I think that is critical to give us the maximum chance of a peaceful transition of power.

My concern is that impeachment/removal just carries a higher risk of violence, shootings and worse... with people feeling like the Presidency was stolen from them. Trump has already done the thing he does where he quite transparently calls for something to happen by coyly "predicting" that it will happen... whereby he "predicted" that there would be violent reprisals if he were impeached.

Do you think it matters whether he goes via election or impeachment? Even if he's voted out, the right-wing media will say it was a stolen election worthy of an armed uprising, and his followers will believe and obey without question just as they always have.

 

[metalhead]

All of the articles I have read about Trump potential indictments say the statute of limitations won't start running until he is out of office.

We'll see. It's not really a settled question that I can tell. That would make the most sense, but guess who would be asked to rule on that question most likely? Mr. "I like BEER!!" and his idiot friends Tobin and Squi.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Do you think it matters whether he goes via election or impeachment? Even if he's voted out, the right-wing media will say it was a stolen election worthy of an armed uprising, and his followers will believe and obey without question just as they always have.

I do. I think that if he goes via election, there will indeed be all the claims of rigged election, etc... but it will be the same sore-losering that there always is after every election. Impeachment/removal would be unprecedented and so the public reaction to it might be equally unprecedented/unpredictable.

 

[Phrossack]

I do. I think that if he goes via election, there will indeed be all the claims of rigged election, etc... but it will be the same sore-losering that there always is after every election. Impeachment/removal would be unprecedented and so the public reaction to it might be equally unprecedented/unpredictable.

I'd argue this is different. Unlike any other candidate we've had, he has a combination of fanatically loyal cult following and the willingness to incite political violence for personal gain. He told his followers during the campaign that "Second Amendment types" could "do something" about Clinton, and always trots out "warnings" about violence if he loses or is held accountable for his actions. His followers are unmoved in their support even when he said he'd take guns first and worry about due process later--and given just how central guns are to the belief system of his followers, that is saying a lot.

It's clear to me that tens of millions of people would do anything, up to and including mass political violence, at his command. I don't think he would just quietly accept defeat, and I don't think his supporters would, either.

 

[Old Hippy]

I'd argue this is different. Unlike any other candidate we've had, he has a combination of fanatically loyal cult following and the willingness to incite political violence for personal gain. He told his followers during the campaign that "Second Amendment types" could "do something" about Clinton, and always trots out "warnings" about violence if he loses or is held accountable for his actions. His followers are unmoved in their support even when he said he'd take guns first and worry about due process later--and given just how central guns are to the belief system of his followers, that is saying a lot.

It's clear to me that tens of millions of people would do anything, up to and including mass political violence, at his command. I don't think he would just quietly accept defeat, and I don't think his supporters would, either.

I'll just point out that the second amendment types did do something.... they voted
So it would follow that the tens of millions of people who would do anything, up to and including mass political violence would not agree with you
Their very principles are that the constitution is paramount
That is why you will find that everything Trump and his 'cult' supporters do is within the law even getting the Hillary emails released by Judicial Watch the other week ...
It took nearly two years for that even tho Trump is Potus and appoints the current heads of DOJ and the State Department his 'cult' dotted the i's and crossed the t's and he did not interfere with the process

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'll just point out that the second amendment types did do something.... they voted
...
Their very principles are that the constitution is paramount

How did all that voting in 2018 go for them? Given that they actually lost the 2016 voting by the people and only won because of electorial gerrymandering, I wouldn't say their candidate was the most popular. If they are such backers of the constitution, why do they accept the Donald's total disregard for it? Why do they allow him to put crooks into office?

I'm not sure you actually understand US politics or government.

 

[Old Hippy]

How did all that voting in 2018 go for them? Given that they actually lost the 2016 voting by the people and only won because of electorial gerrymandering, I wouldn't say their candidate was the most popular. If they are such backers of the constitution, why do they accept the Donald's total disregard for it? Why do they allow him to put crooks into office?

I'm not sure you actually understand US politics or government.

they have the Senate 53-47..
on average since WWII the average is for 26 lost in the House and 4 lost in the Senate... Trump did worse than average in the house...
Hows RBG's health?...if you understand US politics you know what that means
At the moment the 'cult' are busy dotting the i's and crossing the t's on the Fed... especially sec 10 part 2 of 'untitled'

 

[Estebonrober]

they have the Senate 53-47..
on average since WWII the average is for 26 lost in the House and 4 lost in the Senate... Trump did worse than average in the house...
Hows RBG's health?...if you understand US politics you know what that means
At the moment the 'cult' are busy dotting the i's and crossing the t's on the Fed... especially sec 10 part 2 of 'untitled'

You support the idea that the fed is to blame for the stock crash this past month?

 

[Old Hippy]

You support the idea that the fed is to blame for the stock crash this past month?

More the idea that the fed is a ponzi scheme of debt and we are due for a crash worse than 2008... the current record rises are just smoke and mirrors
Russia and China are buying gold like its in limited supply or something...

if your a US citizen you are responsible for...

 

[Estebonrober]

More the idea that the fed is a ponzi scheme of debt and we are due for a crash worse than 2008... the current record rises are just smoke and mirrors
Russia and China are buying gold like its in limited supply or something...

if your a US citizen you are responsible for...

people have been saying this nonsense for a hundred years, it has yet to pass. . .

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-china-and-russia-are-buying-so-much-gold-2016-08-01

They have a long long way to go to catch up with the US in gold reserves. Any serious threat to US financial dominance would be challenged by every trading partner either of these countries depend on. Trump's alienation of allies is a problem though since it hurts our standing as reliable and honest brokers on the international markets.

 

[Old Hippy]

people have been saying this nonsense for a hundred years, it has yet to pass. . .

2008?... then spending/acquiring another 8 trillion of debt to bail out the banking system...

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-china-and-russia-are-buying-so-much-gold-2016-08-01

They have a long long way to go to catch up with the US in gold reserves. Any serious threat to US financial dominance would be challenged by every trading partner either of these countries depend on. Trump's alienation of allies is a problem though since it hurts our standing as reliable and honest brokers on the international markets.

true they have along way to go but Russia brought 37+ tons not so long ago...
the threat is not to US financial dominance... but Trump has signalled that he is taking on the (private un-audited) FED in almost daily tweets...

Experts are unanimous on the point that bi- and multi-lateral pacts between various nations could become the major drivers on the way toward decreasing the dependence on US currency in international trade.

a non US perspective on the petro dollar who is dumping the US$

The vault, one of the largest in Europe, is in a secret location in London that can store 2,000 tons of gold, silver, platinum and palladium. It was opened in 2012 by Barclays, which is now exiting the business as part of restructuring.

$90 billion precious metals investment by China ...and yes its not CNN...

 

[Estebonrober]

2008?... then spending/acquiring another 8 trillion of debt to bail out the banking system...

true they have along way to go but Russia brought 37+ tons not so long ago...
the threat is not to US financial dominance... but Trump has signalled that he is taking on the (private un-audited) FED in almost daily tweets...

a non US perspective on the petro dollar who is dumping the US$


$90 billion precious metals investment by China ...and yes its not CNN...

Again this is all the same paranoia I've been hearing my whole life. I'm not willing to get into the weeds with you on this topic. Suffice to say politicizing our financial management (why the fed is private and not audited by congress) is problematic. I want him to leave the fed alone. Its possible you are right that the bailing out of the global financial system in 08 just postponed the inevitable market crash we've managed to avoid for 80ish years of fiscal management. Its also possible a meteor could hit and wipe out my town tonight.

 

[Birdjaguar]

2008?... then spending/acquiring another 8 trillion of debt to bail out the banking system...

true they have along way to go but Russia brought 37+ tons not so long ago...
the threat is not to US financial dominance... but Trump has signalled that he is taking on the (private un-audited) FED in almost daily tweets...

a non US perspective on the petro dollar who is dumping the US$


$90 billion precious metals investment by China ...and yes its not CNN...

Do you actually believe that Russia Today is a suitable news source for anything except Russian propaganda?

 

[danjuno]

Again this is all the same paranoia I've been hearing my whole life. I'm not willing to get into the weeds with you on this topic. Suffice to say politicizing our financial management (why the fed is private and not audited by congress) is problematic. I want him to leave the fed alone. Its possible you are right that the bailing out of the global financial system in 08 just postponed the inevitable market crash we've managed to avoid for 80ish years of fiscal management. Its also possible a meteor could hit and wipe out my town tonight.

I'm not a fan of the Fed, but tax cuts getting used for buy backs and deregulation encouraging people to do stupid things, both leading to an economic bubble, seems like a far more serious concern to me where fiscal policy is concerned.

 

[Old Hippy]

Do you actually believe that Russia Today is a suitable news source for anything except Russian propaganda?

are you telling me that it did not happen...
because CNN thinks it did...

 

[JollyRoger]

CNN is a well known source of fake news

 

[Birdjaguar]

are you telling me that it did not happen...
because CNN thinks it did...

Then why aren't you linking CNN rather than RT?

 

[Old Hippy]

Then why aren't you linking CNN rather than RT?

Its old news like you have said ... I don't keep a file on my desktop so i Google what i remember... one source of fake news is as good as another
Heck knows where I saw the Charts of Russian gold buying... some wall Street firm Probably
RT just seems to come up so I go with it... why would I go to CNN first to check if I was right about what i read ages ago... this time I did and found them agreeing with RT
funny that... Russian or Chinese news would have something about Russian or China in them
That probably explains why when I search for 'countries replacing the American dollar for international trade' i get a country that is planning on replacing the US$ for international trade