20BC Cultural win

[Kamino]

I am very proud to get the first BC cultural win.

Thanks to Lexad to prove the efficiency of marathon speed in cultural wins.

Database entry : http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/game_info.php?entryID=15259

1) At low levels, huts give you settlers and workers :
- huge map for max huts (low sea pangea)
- marathon speed to reduce penalty of late settlement
- explore with your initial settler, then explore with extra workers/settlers (exponential returns)
- choose min opponents all with NO hunting (no mining and no mysticism too)
- settle only when you have explored most of the map (it's very quick in fact)
In this one, I got 8 extra settlers, 4 workers and 3 techs in 25 turns !

It looks like while you haven't yet found your fist city, huts pop settler instead of tech. Do you know something about that ?

2) Culture comes from buildings :
- choose 3 city spots with A LOT of trees to chop
- AI capitals are usually good spots, conquer all AI but one or two (carefull with domination limits)
- don't found other cities too close (the wood would go this cities instead...)
- pick Rameses II as leader (industrious for wonders, spiritual for temples and free civic switch)
- build a large empire and a strong economy to buy latest buildings
- you need stone and marble
- spread all religions
In this one, I got all 7 cathedrals in my 3 cultural cities. I reached 1700 culture/turn in Thebes.

3) Grow and tech as fast as you can at the beginning :
- don't care about culture at this step
- let's grow Thebes, build WORKERS in ALL other cities
- tech BW first to be able to chop
- chop MORE and MORE workers
- connect cities & ressources, spam cottages, chop
- tech Masonry
- chop Stonehenge
- beeline Maths (chop 50% more)
- chop Pyramids
- beeline CoL, CS slingshot (turn 103 for switch to rep/cs/or/bur)
- chop HG for extra population
- chop Parthenon, GLib, Mausoleum, Sistine
- spam wonders

4) Strong economy is required :
- lot of cities easy to sustain at low level
- spam missionaries/temples/caths (chop chop and chop !)
- at the end, I got +500g/turn with 100% culture slider, I bought last cathedrals
- specialize some heavy food cities in GA producers (I got 5 or 6, this is a marginal addition in this strategy)
- golden ages (I got 3)
- apostolic palace for the 2 hammer bonus


This was an experimental game.
I didn't micromanage very well at the end (boring... )
I should have tech more before switching to 100% culture (because it's very fast in settler level with a large empire). The perfect turning point has to be computed.
Thebes wan't very good in commerce (no gold or gem).

We can do better !

Kamino

 

[Dynamic]

I popped up to 5 Settlers on Small map so 8 Settlers is not so big amount.
I think you should pop 1-2 Settlers/Workers from the first huts and then continue searching with them but 1 Settler found Capital on ~ fifth turn, not later. Of course, you can miss some good places, but it will be used for other cities...

 

[PaulisKhan]

I popped up to 5 Settlers on Small map so 8 Settlers is not so big amount.
I think you should pop 1-2 Settlers/Workers from the first huts and then continue searching with them but 1 Settler found Capital on ~ fifth turn, not later. Of course, you can miss some good places, but it will be used for other cities...

The problem with this strategy is that you pop fewer settlers/workers once you place your first city, so overall it can slow you down.

As far as I know, if you don't have a city when a hut wants to give you a tech, it makes another roll, that extra roll could then instead be a settler or worker.

I guess it's a tradeoff between how many free techs you want and how many settlers/workers

 

[Lexad]

All looks good except GLib - you don't need that, especially at huge.

 

[Kamino]

As far as I know, if you don't have a city when a hut wants to give you a tech, it makes another roll, that extra roll could then instead be a settler or worker.

Are you sure it makes another roll ?

In my 4-5 attempts, I always got more settlers than workers although the probability is the same (10%).

 

[Kamino]

All looks good except GLib - you don't need that, especially at huge.

GLib is not a gamebreaker here for sure. But at the end of the game, I had nothing interesting to build in Thebes. So 6 culture + 8 GPP + 12 beakers is nice. I usually build NE and Academy in the same city.

Is there a drawback ?

 

[Lexad]

Not sure you need academy.

GLib at finish is all right as long as it is not affecting your gene pool.

 

[bhavv]

For a culture win, every wonder and specialist is important. The Glib gives you a base +6 culture, +12 beakers, the high number of GP points, and with the Sistine Chapel even more culture from the Scientists.

The only thing from that which may have been missed in a 20 BC win is the sistine chapel, but it is a great wonder nonetheless.

Academy is also an Extra 4 culture points each turn as well, if you manage to pop a scientist you can build one, but it may be faster if you try to pop Great Artists instead and use their culture bomb speciality.

Wait, faster then 20 BC??? Forget I just said that, I meant in a normal long game =D

 

[Lexad]

1. You don't need GS GPP in culture game; you need GA GPP. That's why it is unreasonable to build GLib early.
2. Sistine Chapel is the sngle most useful wonder for Cultural victory.

 

[Ozbenno]

Great game and write up Kamino.

I'd also avoid Glibrary for culture, Statue of Zeus is a better option. Looks like you picked up Sistine, which is good.

You are more likely to get a settler from a hut before you settle your first city but can't get any techs. I'd think that settling your first city after popping a couple of settlers might be a better option as you could pick up some great techs (I've hit Metal Casing before very early before) as well as more settlers.

 

[Levgre]

2. Sistine Chapel is the sngle most useful wonder for Cultural victory.

In this case pyramids beats it out

 

[Lexad]

In this case pyramids beats it out

You do not need Pyramids for fast culture, there are plenty Quick (and Marathon)games without Stone Wonders. Especially for Settler level, where happiness and science are much lesser issues than on deity.

 

[Lexad]

I'd think that settling your first city after popping a couple of settlers might be a better option as you could pick up some great techs (I've hit Metal Casing before very early before) as well as more settlers.

The point is settler is much better than a tech from a hut. You do not need Metal casting soon (or at all) for fast culture.

 

[Ozbenno]

The point is settler is much better than a tech from a hut. You do not need Metal casting soon (or at all) for fast culture.

True but you could pop Writing or even Aesthetics. The odds are more that a settler is a better pop though.

 

[Kamino]

1. You don't need GS GPP in culture game; you need GA GPP. That's why it is unreasonable to build GLib early.
2. Sistine Chapel is the sngle most useful wonder for Cultural victory.

My approach was different here.

1) I didn't care about gene pool in the 3 cultural cities. I just maximized building's cultural output (184/151/133 per turn at the end). Remember I got all the cultural multipliers (7 caths, Hermitage, Free Speech : +450%/+550%/+450%). Total cultural output was really huge : 1765/1404/1331 per turn.

2) GLib + Academy and GS (Lightbulb) helped to tech faster which mean :
- earlier wonders to build (remember they double there cultural output with time)
- earlier banks for money for caths
- earlier guilds for extra workshop hammer for faster wonder/temple/cath build
- earlier religions to spread
- earlier liberalism
- earlier free market for extra commerce
- earlier PP for extra commerce
Pyramids => Representation helps a lot in this strategy.

3) GE can build wonders, which is not bad

4) I built pure GA cities apart

5) GM et GPro can in some circumstances be used for a golden age.

6) The drawback is luck with last great peoples can add/remove a few turn in victory. In this game I got a GPro in 300BC...

Of course it could be improved. I agree a better gene pool management can be done, but I think pure GA is not mandatory.

 

[Kamino]

True but you could pop Writing or even Aesthetics. The odds are more that a settler is a better pop though.

A good combination of settlers/workers/techs will be the best.

Maths to chop 50% more is nice to start with.

 

[Levgre]

You do not need Pyramids for fast culture, there are plenty Quick (and Marathon)games without Stone Wonders. Especially for Settler level, where happiness and science are much lesser issues than on deity.

For every turn you get a tech earlier you get extra culture, because you unlock buildings quicker. And representation is the fastest way to turn any city into a great science city, and to give you extra happiness for slaving, plus it ends up giving 12 culture while still in the BCs.

By the time you get to music, you should be approaching a win, and thus you won't get as much of a benefit from the sistine as you would otherwise.

 

[Lexad]

For every turn you get a tech earlier you get extra culture, because you unlock buildings quicker. And representation is the fastest way to turn any city into a great science city, and to give you extra happiness for slaving, plus it ends up giving 12 culture while still in the BCs.

By the time you get to music, you should be approaching a win, and thus you won't get as much of a benefit from the sistine as you would otherwise.

Your presumption that it is tech that limits you, not the spread of reliogion and construction of buildings/wonders/missionaries contradicts my experience. I do not say Pyramids aren't useful - I try to build them all the time on Marathon with Stone even on Deity - but they are not crucial. Especially so, I believe, on Settler, where you have loads of free happiness and techs are almost twice as cheap as on Deity.

Sistine - fyi, Music also unlocks cathedrals. You almost arrive at cultural win without cathedrals?

 

[Dynamic]

Especially so, I believe, on Settler, where you have loads of free happiness and techs are almost twice as cheap as on Deity.

More then twice: 60/130

 

[bhavv]

You dont need just the GA wonders - every point of culture helps with a culture win, and even if you spawn some GS, you can build academies which give +4 culture points, or in this case tech faster. Also, you need to spawn more then just GA's if you want several golden ages as the second one onwards requires different specialists.