20th of July 1944

Discussion in 'World History' started by Adler17, Jul 8, 2004.

  1. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

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    Damn Hitler's heavy oak table. That table is the only thing that saved his life - the legs ran a good length of the underside of the table and protected him from the blast - but enabled it to kill subordinates on either side of him.

    I don't think the Allies would have accepted anything but unconditional surrender - and unless Germany was willing to offer that, which I doubt, the war probably would have just gone on.
     
  2. Sarevok

    Sarevok Civ3 Scenario Creator

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    Actually, more like damn his aides. One of his aides wanted a better view of the map situation, so he moved the breifcase bomb behind one of the large supports of the table.

    As you said above though, the allies would never have made a seperate peace with Germany as Rossevelt wanted to build Germany from the ground-up.
     
  3. Adler17

    Adler17 Prussian Feldmarschall

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    Okay I admit Roosevelt wanted to renuild Germany. But what price was he able to pay when Germany was not under Hitler but a (proto) democratic government? What would the people say? A peace in which most of them achieved what they were fighting for? Or a war with higher losses? That was the only chance the Germans had after the putsch. The price should be too high. Churchill would be able to persuade and he had some influence on Roosevelt. That was their only chance to make an armistice if they were not agreeing in that from the beginning.

    Adler
     
  4. joespaniel

    joespaniel Unescorted Settler

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    The Great Depression and the intrigues of the men around Hindenburg (Bruening and Papen) were the main reason Hitler got appointed Chancellor. Versailles had nothing to do with it.

    Also, the July 20th conspirators were very deluded, they had no intention of ending the war if Germany did not get to keep Poland and Czechoslovakia. They mistakenly believed that the US & UK would accept a seperate peace so war could continue against Russia.

    There was not going to be any "proto democratic" government.
     
  5. Adler17

    Adler17 Prussian Feldmarschall

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    Joe, the depression hit Germany only because of Versailles, and only because of Versailles Hitler was appointed. And Brüning had no role in this. Also the assasins didn´t want to keep Chechoslvakia or Poland. Only parts of them at least: and this areas were mainly inhabited by Germans (Sudetenland). Also the assasins were from different political point of views: From German- national to social democratic, officers and worker. They all had their opinion like any other party. They could agree on an order after Hitler, not more, not less. They also wanted a democratical elected counsel to make a new, better constitution. They were proto democrats at least! Also the Jew massacres woud have been stopped at once. This is in the governmental declartion of this group.

    Here are some of the "shadow cabinet" of them as planned:
    President: Ludwig Beck
    Chancellor: Carl Friedrich Goerdeler, DNVP or Julius Leber SPD
    Minister for foreign affairs: Ulrich von Hassel

    Adler
     
  6. joespaniel

    joespaniel Unescorted Settler

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    Adler, this is waaaaaaaay false. The depression hit Germany because the US economy went down the tubes in 1929-1930, which stopped all the loans from America to Germany. Inflation ruined the Dollar and the Deutschmark.

    The fortunes of the Nazi party arose with the worsening of the depression. Versailles had nothing to do with it, that is propoganda. Six million unemployed and serious political unrest was the real reason.
     
  7. Adler17

    Adler17 Prussian Feldmarschall

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    Yes. But WHY we had to have American credits? Never heard about the high reparations we had to pay? That´s why Versailles was the main reason.

    Adler
     
  8. joespaniel

    joespaniel Unescorted Settler

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    You mean like the reparations that France had to pay in 1871? Or Belgium in 1914? Or Russia in 1918?
     
  9. joespaniel

    joespaniel Unescorted Settler

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    Since it's July 20th, I take my hat off to Beck and Stauffenberg for at least trying to kill the bastard.

    Too bad they missed.
     
  10. Adler17

    Adler17 Prussian Feldmarschall

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    Well the peace of 1871 was at least mild (!) in contrast to the peace of Tilsit in 1806, where Prussia was nearly anhiliated. Belgium was invaded because the Belgish gave the French the right of passage. I think if a nation act like this they can´t hide behind their "neutrality". And Russia, well the commies shot the Czar and should not keep Ukaine and Finland and Poland. These nations wanted to be free and were liberated. There I don´t see such a harsh peace.

    Adler
     
  11. joespaniel

    joespaniel Unescorted Settler

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    I'm sorry, but... :crazyeye: :crazyeye: :crazyeye: :crazyeye: :crazyeye:


    Time for me to quit this thread.
     
  12. Adler17

    Adler17 Prussian Feldmarschall

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    That´s bad because I exaggerated. But this discussion is indeed a bit off topic and discussed in another thread.

    Adler
     
  13. privatehudson

    privatehudson The Ultimate Badass

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    Join the club :p
     
  14. joycem10

    joycem10 Deity

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    This thread has come dangerously close to attempting to exonerate the German people and the Wehrmacht for the crimes of Nazi Germany.
     
  15. dgfred

    dgfred Sports Freak

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    Here, Here joe :goodjob: :hatsoff: . Alot of things could have been much

    different :scan: :confused: .
     

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