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2nd British Civil War 2012

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Completed Scenarios' started by Communisto, Aug 29, 2004.

  1. Chuck2280

    Chuck2280 A pheasant plucker's son.

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    In my house.
    Navman:
    Thanks for the info. I was just curious so I hope you don't feel that I was being "nosy" or anything like that. If you do, sorry about that.
     
  2. navman74

    navman74 Chieftain

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    Not at all Chuck. I rather enjoy seeing the latest posts on this thread :)
    Ron
     
  3. TheDarkPhantom

    TheDarkPhantom Deconstructing Minds

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    94
    Ok, I've been away for a while and this thread has charged on since I last checked so if people can bear with me I have a number of comments in response to people's views.

    Firstly, I welcome many of the last posts from Navman, Kohl and Chuck since they all clearly have a high degree of expertise in their individual fields and offer highly informed points of view.

    Chuck, I don't know how professional your position as a military historian is, most certainly more so than mine, but as an enthusiast I agree with the points you make and many of your conclusions. Though I largely back Kohl's point of view and opinions, I concur over Vietnam. It is unfair of anyone to take a view of the US military being incompetent in it's warfare operations in Vietnam, even the Tet Offensive itself was not, in truth, a US failure, but was portrayed as so by the American and Western media, significantly hampering the US war effort back home despite relative sucesses in the field. Though the US got bogged down in a guerilla conflict which its population could simply not endure, and admittedly it raised questions about how capable the US was of fighting such a war, the combat itself was largely executed with usual US precision, competence and efficiency. Unfortunately the greater scope of the Vietnam war itself prevented this being sufficient to achieve victory.

    In response to Navman, while I respect your viewpoint and do not challenge your closeness to your own military, firstly I am a politics and history student so I do not think I do not understand how 'official government hearings' work, both in my own country and yours. I do not claim that the agencies I mentioned before did not support the war. They most certainly did, and that is why they have been condemned by senate and select committe hearings. Also, I am perfectly aware of how Intelligence Services operate, because it is my primary military political interest. I don't mind you disagreeing with me, but do not assume I lack true education about what I am talking about. I'm not suggesting I've taken offence, I have not, but don't credit me as less informed than I am. Yes, the agencies supported the war, I don'y deny this, and all subsequent investigation has shown that their intelligence was simply not backed up by sufficient information, the reason why much crticism has been laden on them. However (I don't, in this instance know about the CIA) certainly for the British Intelligence services, it has emerged that reports from GCHQ and the JIC (our two primary intelligence compilign bodies) were significantly altered from their original formats, not to actually change the information within, but to remove most conditionary clauses and statements of limited intelligence to strengthen the case for war. It is this I oppose, the fact that on both sides of the Atlantic, while both governments went to war backed by intelligence and the intelligence community, this was, as we have seen, not accurate enough to actually condone the war on the grounds that the governments gave to their people.

    Also, I do not dispute the many good humanitarian operations and wars that have been made over the last century. All I point out is that when there is significant international and UN opposition to such a war, then considering the record of the USA, and the rest of the Western world, in its contradictory approach to 'humanitarianism', this cannot justify a war on its own. Yes, it is a great triumph that the Iraqis are free from their despotic tyrant, yes it is fantastic that Saddam will be borught to justice. However, I would prefer that it had been done with intelligence and understanding that is, without 9,000 deaths, a massive increase in international terrorism, a total destabilisation of the Middle Eastern region, and a conflict which seems to have no end in sight and only shows a mounting death toll every week. I have more comments (I always do it seems ;) ) but this post is long enough as it is, I'll post again in a bit.
     
  4. navman74

    navman74 Chieftain

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    Dark Phantom, was wondering what happened to you :)
    I certainly did not mean any offense. My point was, that as an intelligence officer myself...the way it works, is you put out best,middle,and worst case scenarios..then leave it to someone else to decide, while in most cases, keeping an eye on the 2 choices they did not take, so if it comes back to bite you, you have evidence that,yes, you DID tell the pres,or PM, or admiral, that it would get bad :) This is just how it is done. Many of the good officers, do actually commit to one of the scenarios themself, but in the unforgiving world we work, doing so can shorten a career if wrong, and sometimes even if correct.
    Ron
     
  5. Prince of Wales

    Prince of Wales Chieftain

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    cause we're better than you lot :crazyeye:
     
  6. Faboba

    Faboba Chieftain

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    My own little world
    Interesting map.... just a couple of questions.

    1: Why has Oban sunk down to where Ayr is?

    2: Why has Glasgow moved to the middle of the country?

    3: What happened to Edinburgh?

    4: When did Newcastle cross the Scottish border?

    5: What makes you think Scotland would be pro-'British'?
     
  7. Communisto

    Communisto Condottiere

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    i made scottland pro-british cause, let's face it, they havn't made nearly any serious efforts for separation in the pas 100-200 years
     
  8. elfangor801

    elfangor801 So cold....

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    Oh, btw, Commie, the Scenario is supposed to be 2nd British Civil War 2012, right? Your signature says 2010 ;)
     
  9. Communisto

    Communisto Condottiere

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    Uh Oh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  10. elfangor801

    elfangor801 So cold....

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  11. Dafadau

    Dafadau Chieftain

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    This thread has been an awesome read, now to try the scenario...
     
  12. Spatula

    Spatula Aiya elenion ancalima!

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    I'm afraid if I did that I'd have to wash my mouth out with soap. I've personally never suffered from it, but I'm just lucky.
     
  13. Celtic Fuhur

    Celtic Fuhur Chieftain

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    Communism sucks. If your Irish that would surprise me that you are communist. I am a Fascist but not a racial hating fascist. I am a communist hating Fasicts. But its all cool.
     
  14. hard rocker

    hard rocker Chieftain

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    nice map, shame though, my town lies under anti-imperialists at the start (its not there but where it should be is in blue territory) i think its a good idea, but if there were a civil war in this country it wont be from this senario, but either way, it gets my thumbs up! :)
     
  15. primeminister99

    primeminister99 Always Right & Honourable

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    Well I think the scenario's 'historical' background is hilariously innacurate (except the political instability the Iraq war could cause) [there is no real Empire] I'll give it a go, after all this is just a game.

    Oh for the non-Canadians truth be told, I have to say eh intentionally cause otherwise I'd never say it :D.
     
  16. hard rocker

    hard rocker Chieftain

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    well, i got to say this, not to sound rasict but, a civil war in this country will be started by a foreign influence, our gov. is not helping, letting in more foreign refugees and helping them instead of helping our own homeless. its things like tony blair trying to get the u.k in the european union, changing all the rules except tax costs, feul costs and beniftis, they will still be **** compaird to most of europe, the euro? . bollocks, we have a stong currency why get rid of it?, tony blair is trying to fix something that is not broken, with this in mind more people are starting to think more pro nationalist, then you got tony blais left wing politically correct group, which really grates on me, example: in west london a town was not allowed to put CHRISTMAS lights up because it MIGHT offend muslims living in the area, this is two weeks after a shiek (spelt wrongly?!) celebration which allowed street decorations, **** like that is really not helping. im all up for a multi-cultured society as long as we get the same tratment as our guests.ooh, sorry to drift off topic, but i wouldnt worry about historical correct-ness, after all it is just a game.
     
  17. Plotinus

    Plotinus Philosopher Super Moderator

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    I think you'll find that the UK is already in the EU and has been for some time. Perhaps you're thinking of Norway. But if you want to argue otherwise, Off-Topic is the place to do it!
     
  18. hard rocker

    hard rocker Chieftain

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    what i meant sorry, is the eu constitution, a single eu state making the u.k's borders under eu control, we would still have our own laws, but would have to conform to eu rule, if the u.k refuses the move, the whole thing will fall thruogh.
     
  19. Seriphyn

    Seriphyn Chieftain

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    Over there --->
    WOW, defeated both the Irish and Seperatists in one turn! I attacked the Seperatist guerialla directly to Hastings, and then they were destroyed! All their cities were destroyed!

    Then I attacked the Irish soldier near Newry, and the same happened again! The entire EIRE was in ruins.

    Here's a screendump!

    Check that out! One turn and victory! also, why the infantry? Why not marines? reloading rifles isn't very modern. And why the -500 a turn? Even when putting science funding to 0, I'm still stuck with -350.

    Lookie!
     
  20. Red Door

    Red Door Man of Mayhem

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    this is an okay scenario, but where is Scotland and Northern Ireland should be against Ireland to start with.
     

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