2nd UU and Praetorians

[say1988]

Do you agree that the Eastern Roman Empire was the Roman Empire?
Because the Byzantine Empire is simply a Western term for the continuation Eastern Roman Empire.

 

[The Q-Meister]

A 2nd UU sounds good for reasons stated here: more differentiation between the civs and the ability for one civ to focus on an era that they did well or dominated in. I personally feel Carthage could def use a 2nd UU. Also some famous units that didn't make the cut could also come into play like T-34 for Russia, Terceros for Spain, and so on.

 

[onedreamer]

Do you agree that the Eastern Roman Empire was the Roman Empire?
Because the Byzantine Empire is simply a Western term for the continuation Eastern Roman Empire.

How could I agree that they are the same thing ? They obviously aren't, that's why the Byzantine Empire has been named like this by Historians (to not create the confusion you're trying to create), and that's why the Western and Eastern Roman Empires had 2 different names, being 2 different entities. And Rome in RFC is the WESTERN Roman Empire.

 

[flyingchicken]

It was called Byzantine because it centered around Byzantion, and that the realpolitik there was Greek rather than Roman (thus the shift to "Byzantine" rather than "Eastern Roman"). If anything, in-game Greece represents the Byzantine Empire more accurately than Rome (though impossible to achieve unless "splitting empires with civs in their core areas/liberation as allies" can be an attainable option).

 

[flyingchicken]

Double post. Ignore.

 

[say1988]

How could I agree that they are the same thing ? They obviously aren't, that's why the Byzantine Empire has been named like this by Historians (to not create the confusion you're trying to create), and that's why the Western and Eastern Roman Empires had 2 different names, being 2 different entities. And Rome in RFC is the WESTERN Roman Empire.

The Eastern And Western Roman Empires were two parts of the Roman Empire. And occasionally united (Constantine). In Constantine's time, the Roman Empire became centred around Constantinople in the East. And this became the Eastern Empire (once again).
Just because it adopted Greek culture over time, doesn't remove the fact that it was the continuation of the Roman Empire.
The Byzantine Empire is simply a Western term for it to differentiate the ethnically Greek empire (which is still the Eastern Roman Empire and has every right to the title of the Roman Empire) and probably not the least because the West wouldn't want to give that respect to the Eastern Orthodox people, and Germans especially who claimed the title of Roman Emperor (yet had no real connection to the title, they were just named so by the Pope).

 

[Lokolus]

There are still the hard ones: Inca, Khmer, Babylon, Netherlands, Mali, Portugal, Mongolia, Maya and Ethiopia.

 

["<-_Danny_->"]

Babylon it's easy : the vulture.

 

[Lokolus]

A civ with the volture+Bowman will be too powerful...

 

[flyingchicken]

For the given time period.

 

[onedreamer]

Just because it adopted Greek culture over time, doesn't remove the fact that it was the continuation of the Roman Empire.

Ok, we got to the point where "someone" (sadly, many on these forums) would say italians are roman descendants and that Rome represents Italy just as well. At this point, I quit.

 

[Lokolus]

Rhye, are you going to change the name of the praetorians?

 

[say1988]

Ok, we got to the point where "someone" (sadly, many on these forums) would say italians are roman descendants and that Rome represents Italy just as well. At this point, I quit.

There is a big difference between equating the Roman Empire to modern Italy, and the Byzantine Empire. And I would never equate Rome and Italy.

The culture of an empire can change over time, and it is still the same empire.

 

[onedreamer]

curious, if not the culture, what defines that it is the same empire ? A mere, meaningless name ? Your personal opinion ? What ?

 

[flyingchicken]

In Civ4, culture is empire. Once a city's culture changes, the empire controlling it changes. Tiles with English-majority culture will be, surprise of surprises, only English-workable.

Saying that Rome is Italy or Byzantium is like saying Rome can work 99% Italian/Independent/Byzantine tiles and its cities are 99% Italian/Independent/Byzantine while having no capital (because their status as a political entity was gone a long time ago). At least in Civ4, that's the case.

Elsewhere, just replace "empire" with "nation-state" and don't replace "culture" or replace with "ethnicity" if you want, and Civ4 is rather spot on. Cultural minorities in Civ4 get annoying when they start rebelling like crazy; this problem is exacerbated by various mods--I hope cultural differences add to instability in Rhye's because it makes sense.

 

[say1988]

But it IS Roman culture. What constitutes Roman culture has changed.

Culture changes, Rome has historically adopted many parts of Greek culture and the culture of other peoples around them, yet this is still Roman culture. The East just adopted more aspects of Greek culture into their own.

 

[flyingchicken]

But the East had it's Greek culture grow (in game terms it should have lessened if it were roman ) and most of its inhabitants were Greek anyway. They were ethnic Greeks, they were linguistic Greeks, they were culturally Greeks. They were Greeks through and through with a Roman dressing.

 

[onedreamer]

exactly, Byzantines Emperors chose Greek as the official language because the Empire's population was mostly greek. That has nothing to do with the evolution of cultures. It's the same reason why we have "christian" holidays in pagan feasts days. Culture's evolution is spontaneous and not by decree.

 

[AgnosticTheocra]

whoops, wrong thread, ha

 

[jsweeney]

one thing: who cares about the Roman Empire?!? i DONT!

Secondly, i believe that the UUs for America should be the SEAL still and maybe a Continental Soldier to replace musketmen.

I also am confused that the british UU, the Redcoat, is placed in the wrong era. I mean, rifling was discovered in mid 1800s but redcoats fought in Revolution During 1770s!

P.S.- if you have to ask what revolution leave!