1. We have added the ability to collapse/expand forum categories and widgets on forum home.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. All Civ avatars are brought back and available for selection in the Avatar Gallery! There are 945 avatars total.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. To make the site more secure, we have installed SSL certificates and enabled HTTPS for both the main site and forums.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Civ6 is released! Order now! (Amazon US | Amazon UK | Amazon CA | Amazon DE | Amazon FR)
    Dismiss Notice
  5. Dismiss Notice
  6. Forum account upgrades are available for ad-free browsing.
    Dismiss Notice

2nd UU/UB brainstorm thread

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall: Europe' started by merijn_v1, Jun 15, 2016.

  1. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    7,895
    Location:
    Szeged, Hungary
    :mischief:
     
  2. Swarbs

    Swarbs Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    938
    Lol, yeah I'll get right on changing those files. Erm...little help? :lol:
     
  3. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    477
    Location:
    The Low Countries
    Oops, messed up the names.

    Sorry guys, do you want me to edit them into the intended names or shall I preserve my mistake for posterity?
     
  4. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    477
    Location:
    The Low Countries
    Another UB for the Dutch or perhaps even Burgundy.

    Water board
    (replaces wharf?)

    description in the link -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_board_(Netherlands)

    first paragraph form description:

    Dutch water boards (Dutch: waterschappen or hoogheemraadschappen) are regional government bodies charged with managing water barriers, waterways, water levels, water quality and sewage treatment in their respective regions. These regional water authorities are among the oldest forms of local government in the Netherlands, some of them having been founded in the 13th century.
     
  5. Ogi123

    Ogi123 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2011
    Messages:
    187
    Location:
    European Federation
    Why Tabor for Poland that Czech/Bohemian unit. Lisowczycy -light cavalry formation replacing Pistoleers would be better.
     
  6. Swarbs

    Swarbs Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2009
    Messages:
    938
    Isn't that already the UP for George W Bush?
     
  7. Publicola

    Publicola Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    310
    1) I'd suggest calling it "Waterschappen", since "Water board" has a rather unfortunate connotation here in the US.

    2) If this does become a UB, I'd suggest having it replace an administrative building, since (as your own quote states) these were "regional water authorities" and "among the oldest forms of local government." So on top of the original building's maintenance and stability benefits, this UB would perhaps give extra food or health for coastal cities.
     
  8. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    477
    Location:
    The Low Countries
    Having it replace a courthouse is also a possibility.

    I figured there are already a lot UB's that replace the courthouse and (afaik) none replaces the wharf yet. (the ub could have reduced costs for the building (it is quite expensive) and/or also make it buildable on tiles non-adjacent to rivers and/or remove the health penalty and/or give an additional 2 or 3 :food: to marshes (with another 2 :food: for polders to bring the total up to 4 :food: for the dutch) and/or reduce maintenance a tiny bit (perhaps 10%) and/or allow another engeneer slot.) <- there are a lot of possibilities for an UB Wharf is what I am trying to say, I guess.)

    As for the different name (not sure if 'waterschappen' will make it to the game, the dutch windmills already are a thing Merijn has cooked up and ready to serve) I think Waterschappen is a good compromise between what (I think) they were called (I figure the word Hoogheemraadschappen looks very foreign(hoog is a prefix simililar to grand in the title grandmaster in chess, heem is the old word for the place you live (similar to home) and schap is a suffix meaning something that is created for)) and what they are (a political instrument called water boards (wasterschappen is just a literal translation))

    As for all of you who consider waterboarding unpleasant, I can only suggest not getting too involved in politics ;)
    And yes, I am aware what waterboarding means. Some idiot had himself waterboarded on Dutch television to find out first hand if he'd consider it torture. Verdict: Yes.
     
  9. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    690
    Location:
    Budapest, Hungary
    As I read it, it was anything about water, river, lake, coast as well. So make it wharf ang give +1 healt seems okey to me.
     
  10. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Messages:
    4,628
    Location:
    The city of the original vlaai
    A wharf with no unhealth and a 15-25% maintenance reduction seems very appropriate to me. (or alternatively a 10% maintenance reduction and an engineer slot)

    (It's very generic, but not all UB need to have very exotic powers)

    I think Waterschap is a good name. Many UB have names in their own language. (Folwark, Voivodeship, Kremlin, Hammam, Rathaus etc.)
     
  11. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    477
    Location:
    The Low Countries
    With Merijn deciding (for now) that the Waterschap should probably be a Dutch UB

    (which is probably right. Water boards do predate the Netherlands. (Making it (to me more or less) a viable option for Burgundy. (The Southern Netherlands were the main Burgundian base of power)) But the earliest water boards also predate Burgundian rule over the future Dutch and Belgian countries (by about a hundred years. (which is a shorter timespan in the middle ages than it is today, but still a very long time))

    the Burgundians are still lacking an idea for a second UB (and UU)

    (discarding (for now) my idea of Burgundian Dutch peat stabbing for salt, which (to me) seems like a lot of coding work for very little applicability.)

    But I think I found a couple of good ideas now.

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgundian_Netherlands

    especially under the heading Political -> Estates General/Staten Generaal
    and under the heading Ducal Patronage (illuminated manuscripts) -> Scriptorium

    Staten Generaal
    (possible) replacement for courthouse (or Summer Palace, but that is a national wonder)
    ability: towns produce one additional :hammers:
    Institution created by Philip the Good to promote/facilitate centralisation (and decrease power of local towns/cities and nobility).

    Scriptorium
    (possible) replacement for (?)
    (there are no libraries in RFCE so candidates (I can think of right now) are monastery/theatre/university/house of wisdom/guild/'completely new building'
    ability: (?) +10% culture and a free artist slot, perhaps available with literature (for universities/theatres/houses of wisdom (and becomes obsolete with printingpress iso universities)/guilds)
     
  12. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    477
    Location:
    The Low Countries
    I have difficulty finding a unit suitable to be the second burgundian UU.

    I guess that is inherrent to their nature of being part of both the French kingdom and the Holy Roman Empire (medieval Germany).

    The best I could come up with sofar is Flemish pikeman.

    Infantry armed with a geldon (type of long spear) most famous for beating the French in the Battle of the Golden Spurs (1302 AD). That is before the Flemish became a part of the 'Burgundian Netherlands' (1384 AD - 1482 AD) Flemish Pikemen were a part of the Burgundian army (either as levies or as mercenaries), but they could not live up to the (high) expectations and supposedly were inferior to their Swiss counterpart.

    I suggest a guisarmier with +50% citydefense and immunity to collatoral damage.
    (to simulate their effectiveness at home and lack of motivation (an argument stated to explain their inferiority compared to the Swiss Pikemen) on offensive campaigns.)
     
  13. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    477
    Location:
    The Low Countries
  14. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    477
    Location:
    The Low Countries
    UB for Novgorod (or Kiev):

    Votchina
    replacement for manor
    +50% income from traderoutes (and does not become obsolete)

    exerpt from (first) source:
    sources:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novgorod_Republic
    and
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Votchina

    (a building to help (early) Novgorodian economy. It's bonus would discourage manoralism. I don't know if that is to be desirable. If it isn't than perhaps the bonus could be expanded with (or replaced by) an additional traderoute under manoralism)
     
  15. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    477
    Location:
    The Low Countries
    UU for Novgorod:

    Fur trapper
    replaces worker
    starts with the promotions woodsman I and woodsman II
    builds camps in 1 turn

    (a unit to help early Novgorodian economy (and also UHV)
    Novgorodian acquisition of furs became highly institutionalized in the 13th century.
    The furs were acquired in the form of taxes imposed on land-owning peasants by both the state and Boyars.

    source: https://www.lib.umn.edu/bell/tradeproducts/squirrel )
     
  16. Publicola

    Publicola Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2014
    Messages:
    310
    Perhaps something more broad-based,inot exclusive to camps. Perhaps "double movement and double worker efficiency in forests"?
     
  17. flamingo12

    flamingo12 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2016
    Messages:
    2
    This is a very controversial topic - but you may be correct. Depends on how you define "very historic"....
     
  18. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    2,887
    Location:
    Canada
    One could conceivably interpret a Jewish missionary as inviting Jews to settle in your cities. Not sure how often this happened though.
     
  19. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    477
    Location:
    The Low Countries
    Possible UU for Kiev

    Varangian
    beefed up longswordsman (perhaps available a bit earlier?)

    (motivation for longswordsman under spoiler)
    Spoiler :
    All Viking related units share a place in the same upgrade chain

    the Norwegians got the (axeman) Berserker

    axeman -> longswordsman

    the Danish got the (swordsman) Huskarl

    swordsman -> longswordsman

    the Novgorodians got the (maceman) Ushkuinik

    longswordsman -> maceman

    that leaves the longswordsman without a "vikingesque improved version"

    Kievan Rus (under varangian rule) waged wars against the Byzantine empire to accomplish favorable trade conditions (eg exerption from taxes on trade in Costantinople).

    exerpt from Wikipedia:
    (sources: -> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangians
    and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus' <- specific Rus'-Byzantine relations)
     
  20. Force44

    Force44 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2015
    Messages:
    477
    Location:
    The Low Countries
    Possible UB for Kievan Rus

    (disclaimer under spoiler)
    Spoiler :
    (Hailing from the Netherlands I feel a bit hesitant suggesting possible second UU's and UB's for Slavonic civs. A long long time ago I can still remember how that studying Slavonic languages and culture for two months was really fun. So I'm not entirely ignorant on the subject. But I still suspect people, on this forum, living in a country with a Slavonic background might have better ideas. nevertheless: )

    Gord
    replacement for walls
    citywalls with half the cost that gives +10% :hammers:

    (The Kievan UHV leaves very little room for frivolous contstuctionprojects, this modification is aimed to make walls a viable constructionoption for some/most towns and even a good investment in hammers for others)

    Gord is a word that described a location with a wall/fence around it.

    Those places in time evolved into towns (Gorod eg Novgorod (New Town))
    or just a collection of trees with a fence around it (Gaard eg Boomgaard (dutch for the english word orchard.

    (which in turn gives pause reminiscing J.R.R. Tolkiens interpretation of the word Orc) ))

    additional information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gord_(archaeology)
     

Share This Page