[Vote] (3-01) Proposal: Make Polders buildable in Lakes

Approval Vote for Proposal #1 (instructions below)


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pineappledan

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VP Congress: Session 3, Proposal 1

Currently the Dutch polder can be built in any ocean tile with 3 adjacent land, including inland seas, but not allowed in lakes.

I propose we allow polders to be buildable in Lake tiles with 3 adjacent land. Ie any water with 3 adjacent land tiles.

This would make polders slightly more common. Placements for polders are very rare right now. It would also make settling inland a little more attractive, since there can be some marsh/lake placements that can be attractive for Netherlands.
 
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It can translate to "much more common than coastal ones" in maps that have a systematic lake placement method.
 
In the spirit of more clear resolution threads, can we get a reminder on top of what yields Polders have exactly? With an aqueduct the unimproved lakes are already 5:c5food:1:c5production:, which is significantly stronger than the unimproved (lighthoused) coast tiles that already had them at 3:c5food:1:c5gold:. Coast gets the harbor eventually too but that's a big expensive building and doesn't compare as well as the Lighthouse:Aqueduct analogy.
 
I would rather increase the possibility of placing polders, depending on the map played, the number has become very restrictive.
But more than aiming for lakes to increase the number of polders (if playing with Better Lakes for VP from @InkAxis, it's very limited anyway), what in my opinion needs to be done would be to consider a polder as a land tile (which it is in reality). Thus, with two coastal tiles and a polder already placed, another can be placed,...
 
Coast:
Base: 2:c5food:
Lighthouse: +1:c5food:1:c5gold:
Harbor: +1:c5food:
Seaport: +1:c5production:1:c5gold:

Lake:
Base: 3:c5food:1:c5production:
Aqueduct: +2:c5food:
Windmill: +2:c5production:2:c5gold:
Goddess of Purity gives +1:c5food:1:c5faith:

Marsh:
Base: 3:c5food:
Herbalist: +1:c5production:
Windmill: +2:c5production:2:c5gold:
Goddess of Purity gives +1:c5food:1:c5production:1:c5faith:
Coast gets the harbor eventually too but that's a big expensive building and doesn't compare as well as the Lighthouse:Aqueduct analogy.
Harbor is at the same tech level as the polder, so most players will unlock it shortly afterwards. It's definitely worth considering.
 
At the end of the day, the polder is not that strong of a UI, the yields it gives are pretty meek compared to Kasbahs or the Mayan's one I can't remember, or the chinese one I can't pronounce ;)

I think putting them on lakes is a fine idea.
 
what in my opinion needs to be done would be to consider a polder as a land tile (which it is in reality). Thus, with two coastal tiles and a polder already placed, another can be placed,...
If you make polders count as "land" for the placement of more polders, you can place 1 polder in a 3-adjacent land spot, and then spots that couldn't be used for polders next to it can be. This means you could "backfill" a coastline if you are given 1 spot to open up a line of polder/land placements.

It's instructive to look at a map when thinking about that proposal. When we considered this possibility it more than doubled the available spots on a random coastline, which means more than 2x the power for the polder improvement overall. I would like Polders to be more common than they are now, but I don't necessarily want them to be simply Common.

It also makes a weird order of improvement, because you can't place some polders until others are placed. An enemy civ or city state could be on top of the one 3-land coast tile you need to make 4 other polders, or the tile you need to fill in your line of almost-polders could be outside your tile working range.

TL;DR - Polders being used as prereqs for other polders creates some really weird interactions. It's also more new code. Allowing polders in lakes is not new code.
 
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If you make polders count as "land" for the placement of more polders, you can place 1 polder in a 3-adjacent land spot, and then spots that couldn't be used for polders next to it can be. This means you could "backfill" a coastline if you are given 1 spot to open up a line of polder/land placements.

It's instructive to look at a map when thinking about that proposal. When we considered this possibility it more than doubled the available spots on a random coastline, which means more than 2x the power for the polder improvement overall. It also makes a weird order of improvement, because you can't place some polders until others are placed. An enemy civ or city state could be on top of the one 3-land coast tile you need to make 4 other polders, or the tile you need to fill in your line of almost-polders could be outside your tile working range.

TL;DR - Polders being used as prereqs for other polders creates some really weird interactions. It's also more new code. Allowing polders in lakes is not new code.
Yes, reading you I see that my idea was very badly expressed, I meant to count only one polder as land in the adjacency combination. If there are two polders, it doesn't work because we effectively cover all the coasts quickly :).
But indeed, it requires code. I'm not against using lakes, it's just that I really enjoy InkAxis' mod.
 
If I recall, Inkaxis’ salt lakes are technically a resource, so they would block polders. I don’t think there is any compatibility issue
 
If I recall, Inkaxis’ salt lakes are technically a resource, so they would block polders. I don’t think there is any compatibility issue
No, there are no compatibility problems but most lakes are either with salt or with fish, which will limit the possibility of placing polders and therefore lead to a Cornelian choice, I play with or without this mod.
 
Proposal sponsored by pineappledan.
 
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