3 days until U,S. government shuts down

[Zkribbler]

The U.S. government is the only one I know of in the world which has imposed upon itself an artificial "debt ceiling." When borrowing nears the ceiling, either revenues must be raised, expenditures must be cut, the ceiling must be raised, or the problem avoided by tiptoeing around it with a "continuing resolution." If not, the government shuts down.

During the last shutdown, the GDP took a $24 billion hit.

This Friday, the US government will run out of money. Monday, the House passed rules for any continuing resolution. The rules specifically bar any aid to Flint, Michigan for its water problem. The Dems say, without this relief, they will not vote for the CR, and thus the government will close down.

The Senate has already passed relief.

The amount in dispute $220 million.

 

[tetley]

Ah, $220 million--exactly the amount in taxes Trump should have owed on $648 million.

 

[Birdjaguar]

In government terms $220 million is just a rounding error. More stupidity from the right.

 

[Takhisis]

It's ideological. People shouldn't be helped and corporations never blamed or taxed. See their platform for this year, deny climate change, (re-)introduce regressive taxation and make life for foreigners harder.

 

[FriendlyFire]

In government terms $220 million is just a rounding error. More stupidity from the right.

It matters ..... when a Democrat is President

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Those people in Flint need to be punished for saying bad things about their Republican governor.

 

[timtofly]

I thought it was because the Mayor supports Hilary and Hilary supports the Mayor?

It takes a village to shut down the government.

 

[MobBoss]

Just to clarify: https://www.rt.com/usa/360874-government-shutdown-senate-/

 

[FriendlyFire]

Just to clarify: https://www.rt.com/usa/360874-government-shutdown-senate-/

How many years without an actual budget ?
This is just ridiclous and getting worse.

GOP add in 500 Mil for Louisiana and Texas
And at the same time removed 220 Mil for Flint

Also aggravating Democrats is McConnell’s decision to include in the stopgap spending bill $500 million in disaster relief for flooding in areas largely represented by Republicans — mainly Louisiana and Texas.

While the water bill that included Flint relief easily passed the Senate, the House version of the water bill, which is set to pass Wednesday, does not include the Flint funding.

House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) told reporters Monday that “we are going to deal with Flint,” but House Republicans moved later in the day to deny a vote on an amendment that would add it to the House water bill

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...al-shutdown-over-flint-relief-funds/#comments

 

[Lexicus]

Republicans just hate the 14th Amendment:

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law [...] shall not be questioned.

 

[civvver]

Those people in Flint need to be punished for saying bad things about their Republican governor.

While your comment maybe makes sense because there was a ton of outrage against snyder, the premise that snyder had something to do with this scandal or should've stopped it is just ludicrous if you look at the facts.

Facts are it was the city officials who pushed the change and didn't put the anti corrosion additives in the water and then epa regulators who failed or maybe even covered up that fact and the toxic lead levels. Just look at who's being indicted now in the case.


And actually I think everyone in Michigan knows this, it's only some stupid loud mouthed celebs like Cher who got on twitter and blasted him.

Anyway the people of flint need relief and I know they appealed to fema to get it labeled as a disaster and I think it got rejected.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Facts are it was the city officials who pushed the change and didn't put the anti corrosion additives in the water and then epa regulators who failed or maybe even covered up that fact and the toxic lead levels.

Yeah. That is absolutely nothing like what the independent investigation concluded. Not even in the ballpark.

The Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (MDEQ) failed in its fundamental responsibility to effectively enforce drinking water regulations. The Michigan Department of Health and Human Services (MDHHS) failed to adequately and promptly act to protect public health. Both agencies, but principally the MDEQ, stubbornly worked to discredit and dismiss others’ attempts to bring the issues of unsafe water, lead contamination, and increased cases of Legionellosis to light.

Neither the Governor nor the Governor’s office took steps to reverse poor decisions by MDEQ and state-appointed emergency managers until October 2015, in spite of mounting problems and suggestions to do so by senior staff members in the Governor’s office, in part because of continued reassurances from MDEQ that the water was safe.

It should be noted that this nominally independent task force was in fact commissioned by the Governor's office and was probably making at least some effort to go as softly on the Governor as they could get away with.

 

[dusters]

Thread titles like this makes me want to quit OT or apply for a Mod. Why do we get bad journalism type thread titles here?

 

[Tani Coyote]

https://www.rt.com/usa/360874-government-shutdown-senate-/

As a result of not including the $220 million relief earlier agreed upon, the bill has failed in the Senate.

I'm questioning the Democratic strategy here. They've been able to vilify the GOP as the Party of government shutdowns during this Presidency, but now they're the ones forcing it. Is $220 million really worth the ire of the American people in an election year?

There's great humor in McConnell criticizing the Democrats for bringing about a government shutdown, though.

 

[tetley]

The GOP stonewalled on Obama's rightful Supreme Court nominee, so I don't have an issue with it. Nor did I ever have an issue with the federal government shutting down.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

https://www.rt.com/usa/360874-government-shutdown-senate-/

As a result of not including the $220 million relief earlier agreed upon, the bill has failed in the Senate.

I'm questioning the Democratic strategy here. They've been able to vilify the GOP as the Party of government shutdowns during this Presidency, but now they're the ones forcing it. Is $220 million really worth the ire of the American people in an election year?

There's great humor in McConnell criticizing the Democrats for bringing about a government shutdown, though.

Two things.

One, people can get a pretty clear comparison of what the Democrats consider shutdown worthy (people in a US city are being poisoned) as opposed to what the Republicans think is shutdown worthy (Americans forced a black president on us, we'll show them).

Two, every day that the congress spends in Washington wrangling over this is a day they are not home campaigning for reelection. Since there are far more Republican incumbents at risk than Democrats this is strategically sound.

 

[Tani Coyote]

Nor did I ever have an issue with the federal government shutting down.

Government shutdowns can be costly in political terms, e.g. Gingrich being dubbed the Gingrinch when he tried the tactic during his term as Speaker of the House.

The Democrats have been able to paint the GOP as the party of obstruction very well during Obama's term, and this could help them in November. But if they try the same tactic themselves... this removes their ability to point fingers.

Two, every day that the congress spends in Washington wrangling over this is a day they are not home campaigning for reelection. Since there are far more Republican incumbents at risk than Democrats this is strategically sound.

Oh that... that's diabolical.

Don't they have the incumbency advantage, though? And isn't the role of the particular politician diluted this year given the coattail effect? Those party line votes are destructive.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Government shutdowns can be costly in political terms, e.g. Gingrich being dubbed the Gingrinch when he tried the tactic during his term as Speaker of the House.

The Democrats have been able to paint the GOP as the party of obstruction very well during Obama's term, and this could help them in November. But if they try the same tactic themselves... this removes their ability to point fingers.



Oh that... that's diabolical.

Don't they have the incumbency advantage, though? And isn't the role of the particular politician diluted this year given the coattail effect? Those party line votes are destructive.

I doubt that there is any practical way the Republicans can capitalize on "Democrats are the party of obstruction" at this late date. Any Republican that dares to try that is likely to get their brains dashed out by the backlash.

On coat tail effect, it's cumulative. A strong performance by the presidential candidate "lifts all boats," which makes it easier for a down ticket candidate to get over the top. But that doesn't mean the down ticket candidate can, or should, just count on the ride to carry them. My local congressional race looks like it could be extremely close, if Clinton provides enough of a boost. But what the Democrat challenger accomplishes this week while his opponent is stuck in Washington may be the last little bit that puts him over the top.

There's also the reverse benefits. Neither presidential candidate is going to campaign in my district. It is highly unlikely that either will even set foot in my state except for fund raising. So the entire political apparatus of this district will be driven by the congressional candidates. That will be reflected in turnout numbers.

Now, turnout numbers in my district don't really matter that much to the presidential race, since my state is a foregone conclusion. But in a state where turnout will matter having the Republican incumbents stuck in Washington while their Democrat challengers are pushing their organizations on the ground could make a difference. The reverse is also true, of course, but that brings us back to there are more Republican incumbents to be penalized than Democrats, so it is a net positive.

 

[Tani Coyote]

There's also the reverse benefits. Neither presidential candidate is going to campaign in my district. It is highly unlikely that either will even set foot in my state except for fund raising. So the entire political apparatus of this district will be driven by the congressional candidates. That will be reflected in turnout numbers.

Now, turnout numbers in my district don't really matter that much to the presidential race, since my state is a foregone conclusion. But in a state where turnout will matter having the Republican incumbents stuck in Washington while their Democrat challengers are pushing their organizations on the ground could make a difference. The reverse is also true, of course, but that brings us back to there are more Republican incumbents to be penalized than Democrats, so it is a net positive.

I have to take it back. This is genius from a political standpoint.

Combined with the backlash from McConnell's obstruction likely to cost the GOP several Senate seats, and the likelihood of Trump crashing and burning at some point in the next few weeks, the Dems are set to win, and win big short of some conservative miracle.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

The other key point is that it is almost a certainty that the Republicans will cave here, so Flint will get their water relief.