3 Extra Leaders

Graceheart the Leopard

Resident Amur leopard
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Sep 24, 2007
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I'm thinking of modding in 3 leaders so that all the trait combinations can be in the game. The missing traits are

Creative/Charismatic
Industrious/Philisophical
Protective/Organized

Who do you think will be the best examples of these traits? (Note: they don't have to be in existing civs)
 
The reason some combination were never made is because they would be too powerful. For example, Industrious gives faster wonder build times, and Philosophical gives more Great People. If you can build lots of wonders, it gives lots of great Peoples points. Then Philosophical doubles those points. That combo would be way too powerful.
 
Meiji is IND/PHI
Robert E. Lee is PRO/ORG.

That's how I do it.


Cre/Cha is a secret...;)
 
Meiji is better as Enlightened/Financial ;)
 
The reason some combination were never made is because they would be too powerful. For example, Industrious gives faster wonder build times, and Philosophical gives more Great People. If you can build lots of wonders, it gives lots of great Peoples points. Then Philosophical doubles those points. That combo would be way too powerful.

Like... Boudica Rome?

Things can be balanced out through the UU and UB.
 
Fohn F Kennedy is an idea for Creative/Charismatic
I agree with robert E lee being Protective/Organized
 
Perhaps a different way to look at it might help. Who are the best three non-BtS leaderheads out there?

I would propose including the China Firaxis Taizong, the collaborative Hitler, and the collaborative Alexander (which means that the current Alexander becomes somebody else, perhaps Achilles as a clean-shaven Greek more contemporary to Ramesses and Hammurabi). Without switching the traits of other leaders, I would suggest the following, but swapping others as well might provide a more fitting setup.

Creative / Charismatic - Taizong
Industrious / Philosophical - Hitler
Protective / Organized - Achilles
 
Because it's very hard to find a Spartan king who doesn't have a beard in almost all depictions. Besides, Sparta is more contemporary with Pericles' Athens. I think a Mycenaean leader would be a nice addition to the Greek civ.
 
Because it's very hard to find a Spartan king who doesn't have a beard in almost all depictions. Besides, Sparta is more contemporary with Pericles' Athens. I think a Mycenaean leader would be a nice addition to the Greek civ.

What does a beard have to do with anything?
 
The beard is a factor based upon switching out the vanilla Alexander for the new one. I recognize that you also further modified the original into a couple of different versions, but going with strictly the default as a spare leaderhead, I was looking for Greeks without beards who would occupy a different niche from Pericles and Alexander. That's how I arrived at the suggestion of Achilles. (Yes, technically he's not a leader, but this is for normal Civ which also has Gandhi and Hannibal.)

Anyway, that's still my suggestion for filling these three final slots in the vanilla game based upon superb leaderhead artwork.
 
I really want to do this for my default game. At some point I will do it.

Protective/Organized for Gediminas of Lithuania, one of the most successful military expansionists in European history. A pagan who created the largest empire west of the Mongols, the last pagan state in Europe [west of the Horde], conquering millions of Christians, has gotta be in the game.

Industrious/Philosophical - for either Harun al-Rashid of the Arabs or Taizong of the Chinese. Both these civs, two of the greatest in history, need leaders with powerful traits.

Creative/Charismatic - for Harun al-Rashid if Taizong gets it. Otherwise, adding David of Israel or a Polish monarch would be great.
 
Aside from Lee, Org/Pro would also fit Menelik II of Ethiopia.

Menelik re-organized his armies, trained and equipped them, and defeated the Italians. Menelik would be a great choice for a second Ethiopian Leader.
 
I've modified my main game to add three civs, with leaders using these traits. I used the Colonization assets and split up the Native Americans and made Gran Colombia. Currently, Mangas Coloradas of the Apache is Pro/Org, Hiawatha of the Iroquois is Ind/Phi, and Simon Bolivar is Cre/Cha.

The Ind/Phi is powerful, but not as much as you might think. If you have an aggressive neighbor than life can get really difficult because your big edge is in peaceful building, and few things are stupider than building wonder after wonder in an increasingly attractive city while Shaka is building maceman after maceman. Still, it can work out really well, but I still think Rome under Augustus is way more powerful, especially with Praets and Forums.

I've played with all three and against all three, and they work great. If I can finish my minimalist mod one day I'll spread the love. My mod is pretty small, but I think it is high quality. It adds one wonder, the Pantheon (+2 Espionage per state religious building, requires construction and polytheism), and uses a movie from CivRome so it looks like the other wonder movies. It also tweaks a few things, like Spies move two and all civs have one of six ethnic artstyles until gunpowder era.
 
I'd say you'd need an extra leader for the Chinese, Indian, and Roman civs, which they should have done in the beginning. Spain and Japan probably also warrant a leader, given how notoriously notorious Isabella and Tokugawa are.

So...

Creative/Charismatic -- Taizong of the Chinese OR Harun al-Rashid of the Arabians

Philosophical/Industrious -- Akbar of the Indians

Protective/Organized -- Hadrian of the Romans OR Philip II of Spain
 
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