3 traits pr. civ

[CyberChrist]

Considering that there are now 8 traits in all and that there are a few duplicates with the current 2 traits pr. civ setup(max total variations=28) , I have been looking at viable combinations for a 3 traits pr. civ variant(max total variations=56) for the original rules.

My suggested combinations for a semi-official 3 trait rule set are as follows:

America - Commercial, Expansionist, Industrious
Arabia - Commercial, Expansionist, Religious
Aztechs - Expansionist, Militaristic, Religious
Babylon - Agricultural, Religious, Scientific
Byzantines - Religious, Scientific, Seafaring
Carthage - Commercial, Industrious, Seafaring
Celts - Agricultural, Militaristic, Religious
China - Agricultural, Militaristic, Scientific
England - Commercial, Expansionist, Seafaring
Egypt - Agricultural, Industrious, Religious
France - Commercial, Industrious, Scientific*
Germany - Industrious, Militaristic, Scientific
Greece - Commercial, Scientific, Seafaring
Hittites - Expansionist, Industrious, Militaristic**
Inca - Agricultural, Expansionist, Industrious
India - Agricultural, Commercial, Religious
Iroquois - Agricultural, Expansionist, Religious**
Japan - Industrious, Militaristic, Religious
Korea - Agricultural, Commercial, Scientific
Maya - Industrious, Religious, Scientific**
Mongols - Commercial, Expansionist, Militaristic
Netherlands - Agricultural, Commercial, Seafaring
Ottomans - Militaristic, Religious, Scientific**
Persia - Expansionist, Industrious, Scientific
Portugal - Commercial, Religous, Seafaring
Rome - Commercial, Industrial, Militaristic
Russia - Expansionist, Militaristic, Scientific
Scandinavia - Commercial, Militaristic, Seafaring
Spain - Expansionist, Religious, Seafaring
Sumeria - Agricultural, Industrious, Scientific
Zululand - Agricultural, Expansionist, Militaristic

*) I think Agricultural is the obvious 3rd trait for the French, but the Agr+Com+Ind combo seems too strong to me - so I suggest Scientific instead

**) Hittites, Iroquois, Maya and Ottomans lost one of their originally C3C assigned traits as they would otherwise become identical to another civ - that the trait in question fits better


The traits have distributed reasonably evenly among the civs, as follows:
11 Agricultural
13 Commercial
12 Expansionist
12 Industrious
12 Militaristic
13 Religious
12 Scientific
8 Seafaring
--
93 (31 civs x 3 traits)


Currently there are no duplicates(that I have spotted) and imho there shouldn't be either.

Please post your comments

 

[Dishpan_Hans]

Scandinavia - Commercial, Militaristic, Seafaring

Does commercial really fit the Vikings? Religious or Expansionist might work better.

Carthage - Commercial, Industrious, Seafaring

Industrious? Religious is a better fit. These people sacrificed babies. But then they'd match the Portuguese.

I wonder, could any of the Asiatic civs or India be considered Sea Faring?


It just seems all the seafaring are on the mediterranean or northern europe coasts.

 

[Commander Bello]

Originally posted by Dishpan_Hans


Industrious? Religious is a better fit. These people sacrificed babies. But then they'd match the Portuguese.

In traits, or in sacrificing babies?

 

[Gogf]

Commercial is strong to you? How so. I say Industrius, Religous, Militaristic. Not sure though. France isn't militaristic today, but in the middle ages...

 

[CyberChrist]

Well, we are not really that religious here in scandinavia and never really was (no more than the ancient Greece were anyway) and we are quite commercial. Both Denmark and Sweden had colonies in the far east and america, just like the 'classical' colonial powers (not quite on the same scale of course).

Anyway, Vikings was Commercial in PTW and Carthage was Industrious - so I added the old traits to the new ones.

 

[CyberChrist]

I consider the extra trade in all cities/metropolises and the 20% more cities before rampant corruption sets in as quite strong yes. However if people don't think a Agr+Com+Ind combo would be to strong then I really think that combo would be the perfect one for France

 

[Colonel Kraken]

I like the idea of 3 traits per civ. I had it in my old PtW mod and had considered for my Conquests mod. I just didn't feel like thinking about how to distribute the traits. You've done the work for me. Thanks.

--CK


What do you guys think is the most powerful combination?

 

[Colonel Kraken]

Originally posted by CyberChrist
I consider the extra trade in all cities/metropolises and the 20% more cities before rampant corruption sets in as quite strong yes.

Cool, I didn't realize that. That is pretty nice.

Either I'm too lazy or not bored enough, but could somebody please outline what each trait does? That'd be great.

Thanks,

CK

 

[slothman]

I think commercial is overrated so that shouldn't be bad for France. No what you have to do is 4 traits per civ. Of course that is 70 civs. What I did when I did this was for each civ give the traits is order of applicableness. Then take the best 3 attempting to make sure all the combos were used. Some were really hard as seafaring is uncommon while religious is very common.

 

[Dishpan_Hans]

Originally posted by CyberChrist
Well, we are not really that religious here in scandinavia and never really was (no more than the ancient Greece were anyway) and we are quite commercial. Both Denmark and Sweden had colonies in the far east and america, just like the 'classical' colonial powers (not quite on the same scale of course).

Anyway, Vikings was Commercial in PTW and Carthage was Industrious - so I added the old traits to the new ones.

I was thinking of the old Norse Mythology. Thor, Odin, and stuff. I guess most cultures can be defined as religious based on some point in their history.

I don't even have PTW.

 

[Dishpan_Hans]

Originally posted by slothman
I think commercial is overrated so that shouldn't be bad for France. No what you have to do is 4 traits per civ. Of course that is 70 civs. What I did when I did this was for each civ give the traits is order of applicableness. Then take the best 3 attempting to make sure all the combos were used. Some were really hard as seafaring is uncommon while religious is very common.

I think 4 is a one trait too much, unless you introduce more civ traits. (and I'd be hard pressed to come up with any more traits relevant to the game). 4 traits means that every civ has half the possibile trait advantages, I'd think it would unbalance the game by balancing out the civs too much.

 

[chill888]

if your playing a modern day mod then Germany and Japan shouldn't be militaristic.

Whereas the USA definitely should be militaristic

 

[ShiplordAtvar]

Originally posted by Colonel Kraken
What do you guys think is the most powerful combination?

My vote goes for Scientific, Seafaring, and Expansionist.

 

[Ville]

Originally posted by Colonel Kraken

Either I'm too lazy or not bored enough, but could somebody please outline what each trait does? That'd be great.

Commercial
Less corruption, +1 gold in city tile when size 7-12, +1 gold in city tile when size 13-, I think they gave also +1 shield in vanilla 1.29f patch. Cheaper commercial buildings

Industrious
66%? Faster workers than non-industrious, +1 shield in city tile when size 7-12, +1 shield in citytile when size 13-

Militaristic
Higher chance of promotion, cheaper militaristic buildings.

Religious
1 turn anarchy (2 in C3C?), Cheap religious buildings.

Scientific
5% chance of getting a scientific leader instead of 2,5%, Free tech in the begining of the era (not on ancient ), Cheaper scientific buildings

Expansionist
Scouts, more lucrative goody huts.

Agricultural
More food (not sure about city sizes) anyway in the city tile from the start, you get +1 food. Cheaper agricultural buildings.
EDIT: +2 food irrigation in desert

Seafaring
Lower chance of sinking in the "dangerous" water. +1 gold in coastal cities. Cheaper seafaring buildings.

Those are the effects I know (if I didn't forget anything)

 

[Colonel Kraken]

Thanks, Ville, that was awesome!
Very Kind of you, sir.

Thank you very much,

CK

 

[CyberChrist]

Originally posted by Ville
Commercial
Less corruption, +1 gold in city tile when size 7-12, +1 gold in city tile when size 13-, I think they gave also +1 shield in vanilla 1.29f patch. Cheaper commercial buildings

Industrious
66%? Faster workers than non-industrious, +1 shield in city tile when size 7-12, +1 shield in citytile when size 13-

Bonuses to center city tile are incorrect, correct ones are as follows:

Commercial
Non Commercial civs get +1 gold in Cities(size 7-12) and +2 gold in Metroplises(size 13+)
Commercial civs get +3 gold in Cities(size 7-12) and +5 to gold in Metropolises(size 13+)

Industrious
ALL civs get +1 shield* in Cities(size 7-12) and +2 shields in Metropolises(size 13+)
Industrious civs get +1 shield* in Cities(size 7-12) and +3 shield in Metropolises(size 13+)

Civilopedia and all official statements still state Industrious should also get extra shields in cities(size 7-12), but they currently don't and apparently never did.


*) Please note that you wont notice any extra shields if city was build on a terrain type with no inherit production, as the bonus will cancel the 'minimum 1 shield in city' bonus.


EDIT: Added gold and shield bonuses for all civs in regard to Commercial and Industrious civs.

 

[meltone1]

so Industrious doesn't get any city tile bonus size 7-12, nor does commercial? That kind of sucks.

 

[CyberChrist]

Commercial does get a city bonus of +1 yes - as Ville said. Will add it to my correction to remove confusion

 

[Colonel Kraken]

Thanks for the correction, Cyber.

 

[CyberChrist]

DOH! Misread my own charts earlier

Please reread my correction post for the actual bonuses - should also be more obvious now why I think Commercial is quite a strong trait