3CC AW PTW Monarch

[qoou]

To my knowledge, only 3 (edit: by "3" I mean "4") 3CC AWs have been played (1 win on R, 1 "loss" (time ran out) on R, and 1 loss on M). This was the last one played (on M):
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=105200

IMO, PTW/vanilla is the best version to play this on (leaders aren't useless).

Difficulty: Monarch
Map size: Standard
Settings: 60% Pangaea, Normal (Temperate, 4 billion, etc)
Barbarians: Roaming
Civilization: To be decided
All rules default except auto-respawn and culturally linked
8 random opponents
10 turns per player, 36h to post a "got it" and 72 more to post the save. (this rule is flexible)

Clarifications on what a 3CC AW is:
- The 3CC part means that only 3 cities can be owned at the end of each turn. That means that capturing one city (to get an army) and razing it before the turn ends is acceptable.
- The AW part means that war must be declared on all civs by the end of the turn you contact them on (you may trade anything except per turn deals like luxuries and resources) and peace treaties can never be signed.


Roster
-Qoou
-Tasslehoff
-choxorn
-glenmets
-killerkid
-If someone who's played in one of other 3 3CC AWs decides to play, they can join in the middle of the game.

Basically, once we fill the roster we'll decide on a civ and a start location. My suggestions for the civs are:
Japan - militaristic and have sams (awesome MA units).
Persia - scientific and industrious and have immortals.
Scandinavia - militaristic and have berserkers (6,2 is pretty good for early MA; the AI will probably have cavs by then).
China - militaristic and industrious and get knights with 1 extra movement.
Ottomans - scientific and industrious and have sipahi (although without UU's we might not get to Military Tradition).
Germans - scientific and militaristic (the best possible traits, but we won't be able to use their UU).

 

[greygamer]

IMO, PTW/vanilla is the best version to play this on (leaders and armies aren't useless).

How are leaders & armies 'useless' in C3C

 

[choxorn]

If anything, Armies are stronger in C3C. I think he's referring to the inability of MGL's to rush Great Wonders.

Welcome to CFC, BTW!

Ah, yes- DI1, the Regent loss. The world wasn't conquered until after 2050- And they were trying for 20k!

 

[qoou]

How are leaders & armies 'useless' in C3C

Sorry, I didn't mean to put the "armies" in there.

If anything, Armies are stronger in C3C. I think he's referring to the inability of MGL's to rush Great Wonders.

Welcome to CFC, BTW!

Ah, yes- DI1, the Regent loss. The world wasn't conquered until after 2050- And they were trying for 20k!

Ty; I just started playing Civ again and couldn't find anyone online, so I joined a forum.
I think they still could've done 20k if they'd beelined for ToE once they got into the IA...

So does anyone want to sign up?

 

[Tasslehoff]

I'm in! I've won on Monarch several times, played the Hawk01 5CCC, and I'd love to try out AW. I've never played AW, but I'd love to try.

EDIT: For a civ, I'd vote for Persia or Scandinavia.

 

[Elephantium]

IMO, PTW/vanilla is the best version to play this on (leaders aren't useless).

Pfft, leaders are only "useless" if you only value the ability to rush Great Wonders.

Since I started out with C3C, I never got spoiled with the overpowered version of leaders from the earlier versions

 

[Elear]

Pfft, leaders are only "useless" if you only value the ability to rush Great Wonders.

Since I started out with C3C, I never got spoiled with the overpowered version of leaders from the earlier versions

Hey, you do remember you need 4 cities for an army, right?

 

[choxorn]

This is relaxed 3CC.

I'll join, what the heck.

I also vote Scandinavia or Persia.

 

[glenmetz]

I would be interested in joining up on this

 

[qoou]

Let's start debating on the civ we should use. (Right now, my vote would go to either Viks, Ottos, or Japs).

 

[killerkid]

Boy, this sounds tempting.

I'll join. However I would suggest to do smaller sets starting in the late MA, or early IA, as 10 turn IA sets with wars going on can take a good 2-3 hours.

For a civ...

I think the Vikings would actually be one of the best despite the seafaring trait on pang map. I don't actually think we'll be that far behind the AI when we get them. In my experience with 5 city games and one city games, you tend to fall behind around the middle of the MA. (right when the Berserk kicks in) You actually keep pace quite well in the AA.

For the Vikings, I'd recommend building about 20 archers towards the late AA and early MA, then upgrade them to Berserks. For this however, a min run on writing would be good at the beginning of the game, to get that treasury boost.

The Ottomans UU might come to late for it to do anything useful.
Japan I like, but we are unlikely to get the iron for Samurais w/ only 3 cities on a pang map.

Well, those are my views.

 

[choxorn]

Pangea and 60% Water. However, there are still the small islands, which Berzerks are excellent for wiping out.

Vikes get my vote too.

 

[qoou]

Boy, this sounds tempting.

I'll join. However I would suggest to do smaller sets starting in the late MA, or early IA, as 10 turn IA sets with wars going on can take a good 2-3 hours.

For a civ...

I think the Vikings would actually be one of the best despite the seafaring trait on pang map. I don't actually think we'll be that far behind the AI when we get them. In my experience with 5 city games and one city games, you tend to fall behind around the middle of the MA. (right when the Berserk kicks in) You actually keep pace quite well in the AA.

For the Vikings, I'd recommend building about 20 archers towards the late AA and early MA, then upgrade them to Berserks. For this however, a min run on writing would be good at the beginning of the game, to get that treasury boost.

The Ottomans UU might come to late for it to do anything useful.
Japan I like, but we are unlikely to get the iron for Samurais w/ only 3 cities on a pang map.

Well, those are my views.

We're playing PTW, so resources are a lot easier to get. How about we do 5 turns per person once we enter the IA.

I don't mind using the vikings, but I think that fast early MA UUs (rider, sam, umm... that's pretty much all of them) are better...
Neway, it's 3-0 Viks so I guess I'll look for a decent start.

Also, what tech path are we going to take? We could bee-line for Monarchy, bee-line for Construction (forts and cats) getting swords in the process, or bee-line for Lit and hope we get a leader to rush TGL (I don't think we can afford to build a wonder before we get a stable front and/or mass zerks).

 

[Tasslehoff]

I'd say min run on writing to start, then either beeline for Monarchy or try to get TGL with a leader.

 

[choxorn]

MESSAGE TO ALL:

There's no Seafaring trait in Vanilla and PTW. The Vikings are Mil/Exp, so we start with pottery and not alphabet.

Just want to make sure everyone knows that...

 

[qoou]

I played the first 10 turns; up: Tasslehoff, on deck: choxorn. I'm not going to post a turn-by-turn since the first 10 turns are not exactly exhilarating.

I start a new game expecting the starting location to be in the middle of a desert and rejoice when we start by a river. I decide to research Alphabet because I can trade it for CB or IW later, I mine and road a BG, send my scout to the east, and start on a warrior. I get a city from the barbs, finish another warrior, and realize that we're either on an island (very, very, very bad) or a peninsula (possible very, very, very good) (we also get a 25g from barbs).



As you can see, we only have one river, one luxury, and no mountains (iron, saltpeter). IMO, we should abandon Barb city and move it to one of the blue squiggle squares (the forest would put both the cattle and wheat inside its radius) and create our 3rd town at red squiggle (maximum amount of BGs we can get +2cattle). Although the spot right under red would only put two water squares in its radius, it would mess up New Barb City. I think we should explore the rest of the continent (hopefully there is one) until we find a civ we can trade with. Feel free to change Trondheim's worker to something else.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/133052/Ragnar_Lodbrok_of_the_Vikings_3500_BC.SAV

 

[killerkid]

I think we might be on an island. (Unless the little outlet W W NW of Trondheim goes somewhere)

If we are, it'll be easier to defend, but harder to keep up in tech pace, and we lose some of the spirit of the game (surviving on pang) , in which case we might want to re-roll the start.

I actually think red dot and Bergen would be the best 2 city combo.
Just to clarify Qoou, here is a Roster:

Qoou: JUST PLAYED
Tasslehoff: UP
Choxorn: ON DECK
Glenmetz: Warming up
Killerkid: Waiting

 

[choxorn]

It's up to Tassle to determine whether this is an island or a penninsula.

PLEASE let it be the second one.

 

[Tasslehoff]

Alright, I'm gonna settle the red dot, although I dislike settling a BG, and keep Bergen. Abandoning it this early weakens us too much. If it's an island, should we restart?

 

[Tasslehoff]

Alright, done. I changed a few settings-now it waits at the end of turn, the music plays, and it asks for build orders after building units. We're on a peninsula, with a double choke point! This is really good for the early game, because now only one stack at a time can attack us. Also, past the peninsula are a row of three mountains, good for defense . Unfortunately, I explored a little too far, and I met Japan. Grabbed BW from them, and then DoW'ed. No turnlog, because there's very little interesting that happened beyond that.



We've got a rax coming in the capitol in three, after which we can get a settler. I think we should build a settler in Bergen, then abandon it for optimal placement. I had forgotten we only get three cities when I posted above.

save: http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/117283/3CCAWPTW-3000_BC.SAV