More Unique Components for Vox Populi

3rd and 4th Unique Components for VP - Official thread 88.10

The druidism promotion that's retained when upgrading from a pictish warrior is not generating faith on kill.
The druidism promotion doesn't do anything. It's just a dummy promotion to make that component of the pictish warrior's kit more visible. I'll make it lost on upgrade; just an oversight on our end. Thanks for catching that.
Also, the extra WLTKD from towns/colonial appears to be broken in base VP right now, but is it intended that the oppidum has a value of '1' for Unit_ScalingFromOwnedImprovements when other improvements have 10/20?
This value has changed quite a few times. The next version is going to have it hooked to SELECT VALUE FROM 'customs_house', so it matches whatever the town does from now on. That should solve it.
The hussar ignores ZOC through the lightning warfare promotion and all mongolian mounted range units ignore ZOC through the UA. Haven't heard of any problems being reported from it.
Well, I'll still take it off for balance reasons. Scything back and forth on the same unit is too much single target damage.
Roman legions were iconic and unique for many reasons, but when it came just to combat it was rapid fort building, mobility, and adaptive mimicry. Being the millenia-spanning idea the legion is, I'm assuming VP focused on the Augustan era of Roman legionnaires. For the sake of that context, I just thought it'd be more immersive and a more versatile take on recognizing distinctly Roman things about the legion if the Pilum passive damage was reduced to just 5, but legions had the ability to fortify every turn no matter what. Also, it'd be interesting if Roman legions could be expended in a city to lead to a random outcome of one of the following (not up to the player to choose)
- improve/repair a random tile of that city to simulate the settling of veterans.
- provide a small but versatile bonus of gold, golden age points, and culture to simulate the celebration of triumphs.
- spawn a slave unit that costs no maintenance in place of the expended legion to simulate the vast number of slaves triumphs brought to Roman urban hubs.
- convert the city like a missionary with moderate strength like 250.
- expend in the city for a small instant production boost.
I don't know if you noticed the unique promotions we gave to legion and ballista within proximity of a GGeneral? That should help some with that flexibility flavor you're looking for.
Regarding the settling of veterans and the slavery aspects, this is what we hoped to depict with the Latifundia, which can steal adjacent land on completion

Regarding your specific suggestions, this is a general note of feedback: Most people playing civ will resist adding any more random elements to the game. A lot of these random chance mechanics are also quite heavy on coding and calculation, so they don't yield dividends for the person coding them. It feels bad when something you worked equally hard on happens only a fraction of the time.

If you want more random elements in your game, I recommend you load Sumer as a custom civ. Their unique temple replacement effectively gives them a random unique pantheon specific to that city
“Their sons are educated from the time they are five years old until they are twenty, but they study only three things: horsemanship, archery, and honesty.” - Herodotus on Persian nobles
Persians were known for many things, but militarily speaking, they were always iconic for their mastery of combined arms focused on archery. Perhaps, somewhat like Frederick the Great VP version, the Persian combat bonus during golden ages can be reduced to 10%, but instead gain a unique promotion (named something like "Kamandaran" for all ranged archer type units, giving them 10% bonus to ranged attack when adjacent to a melee unit. They were also known for an eventual marriage with nomadic traditions to form the very cataphracts that would inspire Byzantine Clibanarii. Perhaps the immortals could be altered to upgrade to knights, instead of pikemen, so they may literally symbolize the birth of a knightly class of warrior nobility who were cataphracts, but closely related to the immortal tradition. A Persian civ could inherit the defensive bonus from VP immortals, and thus retain it on the Qzilbash. To bring the immortals in line with other unique units decorated with unique promotions, perhaps their boring +25% defense bonus can be turned into a unique promotion (named something like "Zhayedan") giving +20% defense bonus, an additional 10% when stacked with a general. The Persian region itself was characterized by the "Eastern mantle" of satrap-reliant central authority, which enforced a flow of trade and culture into imperial capitals like Susa, Ekbatana, Ctesiphon, Persepolis, and so forth. To recognize that aspect, I revised the UB - Paradise Garden this way, with changed aspects in Italics.
Another general aspect for civ creation: Stacking unique promotions on a single unit line is something that we actively worked to avoid. It still happened in 1 case (Ethiopia), but it's bad design to have unique units flow into each other like that. It would be especially bad if we re-aligned upgrade paths through multiple different strategic resource limitations in order to make that happen.

I think the civ 6 Immortals are a better reflection of Persian warfare, but our hands are tied with what base civ 5 and VP gave us on that end. We actively tried to spread Persia out across more eras to give a better breadth of Iran's history.
Available at Theology
350 :c5production: Production cost

does not require River
+2 :c5culture: Culture and +1 :tourism: Tourism, +1 :c5culture: Culture and +2 :tourism: Tourism in the Capital.
+2 :c5gold: Gold to Silk and Dyes
+1 :c5food: Food and +1 :c5gold: Gold to Oases
+35%
:c5greatperson: Great Person Points
+3% :c5goldenage: Golden Age Length OR -2% tile improvement maintenance cost (Royal Roads)
30 :c5culture: Culture when a :c5goldenage: Golden Age begins
Same random elements criticism. It requires a lot of resources for a bonus that might actively piss some of the user base off
It's a real shame that Macedon and Greece wasn't separated since their melding into a hellenic umbrella that vanilla civ 5 made of greece sacrificed the most iconic phalangitai, or companion cavalry, which redefined military conquest throughout the Mediterranean. I'm not sure, but if the Hoplite's unique promotions are inherited into their pikemen upgrades as legacy promotions it's wholly acceptable as an indirect reference to macedonian pikes. Cavalry, however, is somewhat omitted. Perhaps Greek cavalry can have a barely impactful but nonetheless immersive unique promotion (named something like "Flying Wedge") which gives only the stacked unit +15% flanking damage bonus when stacked with a general OR ignore ZOC. This is something I myself find unsettling from a balance perspective but I had to throw it out there.
Stay tuned for MC's Greece/Macedon split which I'm working on converting in my spare time.
Speaking of Russia, I thought their UA should be further torn apart (Sorry, Russia) to cede the doubling of iron resource to Assyria. So their UA would be double strategic resources except Horse and Iron. Otherwise, the UC this expansion added to Catherine the Great seemed immersive enough.
I think it's fine. Russia's a fun civ, but I am not sure what we might have done with them instead. I felt like the trading aspect of their history was underserved by civ5/VP, but I'm not altogether satisfied with what we came up with either.

I think a major problem with the Russia civ is... Russia. Their culture and history is something I've always felt quite dispassionate about.
And finally.. Egypt. Civ 6 emphasized Cleopatra's royal economy of .. a harsh feudal system of taxing food to ship them off by making trade routes sent to Egypt yield some food back to the sender. Hence I thought the following...

UB - Nilometer (replaces Water Mill):
can be built in city without River
+2 :c5food: Food, +2 :c5production: Production and +1 :c5culture: Culture.
+2 :c5production: Production for every 5 :c5citizen: Citizen
on construction spawns 2 Flax Resources in the City
+1 food in the capital OR +2 food for those who send trade routes to this city in exchange for +1 culture for Egypt.
Nilometer is definitely strong enough as is. We definitely tried to stay away from Ptolemaic egypt with our design. Once again, stay tuned for a possible upcoming macedon civ.
 
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@adan_eslavo, can we add a "if GetCivilizationType ~= eAppropriateCiv then return end" onto the Suffet and the InDuna? Or would this mess up your Capture+++ mod?

It's especially good for Suffet, who uses a UnitSetXY hook.
 
Excellent reply. I can see the Latifundia filling that in for the legions.

For the Persian Gardens, I just thought Dyes and Silk was more appropriate for Persia as their iconic luxuries. Even though it's unpredictable and makes little sense from a gaming perspective I saw some other civs with similar random resource buffs so I gave that a try XD I also agree that Civ 6 did a much better job depicting immortals. Too bad it'd be a hassle to implement in Civ 5 :(

I'm so glad you guys are separating greece and macedon! Hyped

And for Russia.. Catherine was an imperial founding figure, known for her use of cossacks, diplomatic intrigue, re-establishment of territorial sovereignty.. etc though I can see how Catherine herself is rather boring compared to the greater context of Imperial Russia before her reign.

Also thought it was a bit of a stretch to entertain a buff for Nilometers, since it compounds on the already strong 20% production bonus to wonders.

Much appreciated feedback. Now I have a better sense of why 3/4uc for VP felt constricted.
 
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Playing 4UC Carthage and it's really great. I rush fishing, buy Archer on trapping after UB because barbies will be a nuisance, then buy+/produce Qui-Gon Jinn to get even more Culture from my Top Hat, bully a CS for Gold to get Culture from Authority, buy or produce another Qui depending on what I can do, ask for more Gold/big stuff Tribute from a CS, continue until every reachable CS gives me freebies. I also beat up some civs if they settle in the wrong spots, a fresh coastal city is usually screwed by super Triremes with some archers. Take it fast, raze, put my own city there, free Gold and even more Culture/Science or simply puppet. It's very fun and synergetic.

I didn't like Souffles until I realised you can still spend them for luxuries and since I fought a lot, I generated many. Tons of nice happiness.
 
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Playing 4UC Carthage and it's really great. I rush fishing, buy Archer on trapping after UB because barbies will be a nuisance, then buy+/produce Qui-Gon Jinn to get even more Culture from my Top Hat, bully a CS for Gold to get Culture from Authority, buy or produce another Qui depending on what I can do, ask for more Gold/big stuff Tribute from a CS, continue until every reachable CS gives me freebies. I also beat up some civs if they settle in the wrong spots, a fresh coastal city is usually screwed by super Triremes with some archers. Take it fast, raze, put my own city there, free Gold and even more Culture/Science or simply puppet. It's very fun and synergetic.

I didn't like Souffles until I realised you can still spend them for luxuries and since I fought a lot, I generated many. Tons of nice happiness.
In the next version, you will be able to convert all your admirables into land-mans too. You can bulb all your souffles for luxuries, or you could bulb them all for Adeles
 
@pineappledan Capture+++ uses only database. There will be no problems if you add something in lua.
 
Aztec National Wonder still appearing as bugged to me FYI, doesn't gain any of the stackable abilities, is properly doing the rest of what it does.
 
The Fury of Nergal promotion states; "+7% Combat Strength for each adjacent Enemy Land." I believe it's missing 'unit' from the end of the sentence... although extra strength per adjacent enemy land tile sounds like an interesting concept for something else perhaps :)
 
Aztec National Wonder still appearing as bugged to me FYI, doesn't gain any of the stackable abilities, is properly doing the rest of what it does.
I could have sworn I fixed this... it was an issue with the dummy buildings getting renamed. Are you positive you are using the latest version?
The Fury of Nergal promotion states; "+7% Combat Strength for each adjacent Enemy Land." I believe it's missing 'unit' from the end of the sentence... although extra strength per adjacent enemy land tile sounds like an interesting concept for something else perhaps :)
Fixed
 
I could have sworn I fixed this... it was an issue with the dummy buildings getting renamed. Are you positive you are using the latest version?

Yes. I verified I'm running 38.0 for this mod, and also have the newest 11-21 VP (not sure if that matters). No clue what the problem is but Huey had 6 faith on completion instead of the 3 food/9 faith it should have with it's first GA.
 
Yes. I verified I'm running 38.0 for this mod, and also have the newest 11-21 VP (not sure if that matters). No clue what the problem is but Huey had 6 faith on completion instead of the 3 food/9 faith it should have with it's first GA.
Was that the extent of your testing? I'm pretty sure the GA triggered on construction fires off before the lua hook which adds the dummy buildings. That first free GA doesn't contribute to the wonder's cumulative yields. I can check that again, but I'm 90% sure that's the case.

Perhaps we should remove that first GA just so that people don't get confused...
 
Was that the extent of your testing? I'm pretty sure the GA triggered on construction fires off before the lua hook which adds the dummy buildings. That first free GA doesn't contribute to the wonder's cumulative yields. I can check that again, but I'm 90% sure that's the case.

Perhaps we should remove that first GA just so that people don't get confused...

Ah, okay I wondered if that was the case. I had thought I tested more in my initial game after the update because I thought that might be the case, but in my specific test run-through I just spammed my way to Huey. I'll give it another go tonight and post what I find.

I think the initial GA is cool thematically. I'm not sure if there is a way to fake the interaction, so you get a stack of +3/3/3 even though the GA technically didn't proc it, and then change the actual GA stacks to max of 27. It would effectively keep everything the same but give the impression that the first GA gave you a stack. But I don't know civ's interactions and code well enough to say how reasonable of a change that is vs just removing the GA.
 
I think the initial GA is cool thematically. I'm not sure if there is a way to fake the interaction, so you get a stack of +3/3/3 even though the GA technically didn't proc it, and then change the actual GA stacks to max of 27. It would effectively keep everything the same but give the impression that the first GA gave you a stack. But I don't know civ's interactions and code well enough to say how reasonable of a change that is vs just removing the GA.
Definitely possible.

EDIT: yup! I just booted up a game and confirmed again.
Huey built ==> 6:c5faith:
Spawned GArtist and popped it for GA ==> 9:c5faith:3:c5food:
The first GA doesn't trigger the added bonuses.

@adan_eslavo, @Blue Ghost, what do you think? I can alter the Huey Teocalli so that the first GA gives the first bonus, and reduce the base H Teocalli to 3:c5faith:
 
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The biggest issue is that the HT already gives a free temple, and you can’t give 2 free buildings via sql. I could add the 1st dummy building via lua, but that would require a separate hook, and we are trying to slim down the lua right now. I could also remove the free temple, which is probably fine; temples come a tech earlier so giving a free one later is a weird disincentive to build one, especially for a fairly Faith-focused civ.

Or I can leave it alone.
 
In that case, I'd probably lean towards dropping the free Temple for those reasons... and because it is the more 'boring' of the two options. Unique national wonders giving a free building of the relevant type feel more like an afterthought than anything else - gameplay-wise, anyhow. I do realize that in flavor it makes more sense.

But it's not a big-huge thing, so either way works in the end.
 
Yeah, I noticed it while doing testing today, its nice that it procs even when stacking GAs too. Thematically, the first stack on completion feels better, and it makes sense that a religion focused civ finishing a massive monument to their religion would cause a GA. Plus you almost have to go out of your way to not build a Temple as Aztecs at that point in the game, like you said.
 
@pineappledan I fixed few errors in db.log after your rcent updates but still one "FROM" error is appearing. Please find it.
 
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