3rd trait for civs

[Predator145]

I'm giving 3rd trait for stock game civs while altering some of them. The goal is to have them all have unique sets of traits while being somewhat historically flavored.
What 3rd trait should Japan and Zululand have?

The Japanese throughout most of their history have not been a seafaring (exploring) people. Nor have they been at the forefront of innovation or commerce.

"The island of Jampon, according to what all the Chinese say, is larger than that of the Léquios, and the king is more powerful and greater and is not given to trading, nor are his subjects. He is a heathen king, a vassal of the king of China. They do not often trade in China because it is far off and they have no junks, nor are they seafaring men.

— Tomé Pires in Suma Oriental, bearing the earliest European record of the name "Japan".


Zulu agriculture isn't too remarkable. But they're a sedentary people with a large cattle population, setting them somewhat apart from most iron-age societies. I can't really think of any other trait that suits them historically.

 

[Node60]

Japan:

MIL / IND / AGR.
or MIL / IND / REL

Zulu:

MIL / EXP / REL.

IMHO.

I think it's not easy to make unique and realistic sets of characteristics.

 

[timerover51]

I have used up to four traits with civilizations.

For Japan, I tend to go with Militaristic, Industrious, and Agricultural. The Japanese were always trying to wring as much from their limited arable land as they could.

For the Zulu, I tend to go with Militaristic, Expansionist, and Agricultural. They were heavily dependent on cattle, so the Agricultural rating.

 

[Predator145]

Thank you for your inputs. What traits do you think suits France better? Ind+Com+Ag or Ind+Ag+Mil?

 

[Node60]

Thank you for your inputs. What traits do you think suits France better? Ind+Com+Ag or Ind+Ag+Mil?

IMHO, IDN / SCI / COM

SCI - necessarily.

 

[Node60]

For the Zulu, I tend to go with Militaristic, Expansionist, and Agricultural. They were heavily dependent on cattle, so the Agricultural rating.

I consider "agricultural" as crop production. Otherwise, this feature will have to be given to the Mongols as well, which will look strange.
And religious rites in the life of the Zulu played a very important role, both in military affairs and in public and everyday life.

 

[Predator145]

I consider "agricultural" as crop production. Otherwise, this feature will have to be given to the Mongols as well, which will look strange.
And religious rites in the life of the Zulu played a very important role, both in military affairs and in public and everyday life.

Zulus were not nomadic and grew crop. They were a sedentary people who also had a large cattle population, setting them apart from many other iron age tribal societies.

"Who were the African farmers?

The African farmers who moved to southern Africa were Bantu-speakers. They are the ancestors of many South African people. Like the hunter-gatherers and herders, they also arrived here hundreds of years before any Europeans did.

These farmers brought more new ideas and skills to the east of southern Africa, just like the Khoikhoi and their herds of animals. They introduced crop cultivation, metal tools, Bantu languages and village life to the eastern part of the country. It is believed that they came here because this was a summer rainfall area, which is good for growing crops." - South African History Online

The combination of cattle ranching and the new crops as well as iron tools allowed for a denser population than the previous hunter-gatherer and pastoral societies.

Mongols were steppe nomads and purely pastoral. They need far more grazing territory to sustain the same number of people.

 

[timerover51]

Thank you for your inputs. What traits do you think suits France better? Ind+Com+Ag or Ind+Ag+Mil?

Given that since the time of Charlemagne, France has been trying to expand in Europe, up through the period of Napoleon the Third, when France tried to take over Mexico during the American Civil War, I rate them as follows.

Militaristic, Expansionist, and Agricultural.

Agricultural because agriculture has up until recently been one of the major factors in the French economy. They still depend a lot on that for export earnings.

 

[Predator145]

I've considered giving the Japanese Seafaring again. But with no starting with Alphabet and access to exploration vessels. They're supposed to be slow to exploration party.

"Japan built its first large ocean-going warships in the beginning of the seventeenth century, following contacts with the Western nations during the Nanban trade period. In 1613, the Daimyo of Sendai, with the support of the Tokugawa Bakufu, built Date Maru, a 500-ton galleon-type ship that transported the Japanese embassy of Hasekura Tsunenaga to the Americas. From 1604, about 350 Red Seal ships, usually armed and incorporating some Western technologies, were also commissioned by the Bakufu, mainly for Southeast Asian trade."

They actually sailed to the New World. No other oriental faction did that. And they could have done very well had they not decided to close down the country. But then they exploded into the naval scene after opening up, becoming the world's 3rd largest navy after Britain and the US.

 

[timerover51]

I've considered giving the Japanese Seafaring again. But with no starting with Alphabet and access to exploration vessels. They're supposed to be slow to exploration party.

"Japan built its first large ocean-going warships in the beginning of the seventeenth century, following contacts with the Western nations during the Nanban trade period. In 1613, the Daimyo of Sendai, with the support of the Tokugawa Bakufu, built Date Maru, a 500-ton galleon-type ship that transported the Japanese embassy of Hasekura Tsunenaga to the Americas. From 1604, about 350 Red Seal ships, usually armed and incorporating some Western technologies, were also commissioned by the Bakufu, mainly for Southeast Asian trade."

They actually sailed to the New World. No other oriental faction did that. And they could have done very well had they not decided to close down the country. But then they exploded into the naval scene after opening up, becoming the world's 3rd largest navy after Britain and the US

You might want to slow them down by not allowing them the Caravel unit with Astronomy, so that unless they research Navigation, which is not needed for Age Advancement, they need to wait until they get the Transport for larger capacity ships allowing for easier expansion. The Transport is available with Combustion if you do not modify the game. I have it available with Steam Power, which is more accurate historically.

 

[Ozymandias]

I've considered giving the Japanese Seafaring again. But with no starting with Alphabet and access to exploration vessels. They're supposed to be slow to exploration party.

"Japan built its first large ocean-going warships in the beginning of the seventeenth century, following contacts with the Western nations during the Nanban trade period. In 1613, the Daimyo of Sendai, with the support of the Tokugawa Bakufu, built Date Maru, a 500-ton galleon-type ship that transported the Japanese embassy of Hasekura Tsunenaga to the Americas. From 1604, about 350 Red Seal ships, usually armed and incorporating some Western technologies, were also commissioned by the Bakufu, mainly for Southeast Asian trade."

They actually sailed to the New World. No other oriental faction did that. And they could have done very well had they not decided to close down the country. But then they exploded into the naval scene after opening up, becoming the world's 3rd largest navy after Britain and the US.

When I was playing around with a global "1898" mod, I "mimicked" the rapid Japanese industrialization and naval capacity by giving them a unique Wonder with the "Gain Any Advances Owned By 2 Civs" Flag.

 

[Predator145]

Mongols and Persia get Com as their 3rd trait. Both were situated on the middle of the Silk Road benefited heavily from caravans. Merchants were highly valued.

http://history.emory.edu/home/documents/endeavors/volume6/endeavors-vlm-vi-bozian.pdf

Romans get Ind. But Com doesn't feel right on them. The western roman economy was remarkably unproductive considering the resources they had at their disposal after conquering the mediteranean. Theirs was a plunder economy (Raubwirtschaft), taking revenue from productive peoples in Carthage, Egypt and the Hellenic world. With conquest coming to a halt and thus no more booty and slaves, it went into decline. And with the prosperous "byzantine" east splitting off and losing Carthage to the Vandals there was no more tax base to exploit and the western empire went broke under the enormous weight of its still combat effective military. There was a lot of trade in the roman empire, it just mostly done by none western romans.

I wouldn't use the civ Romans to represent the wealthy commercial medieval and early modern Italian city states. The civ Byzantines (which I give Sea, Com, Rel) suits them far better. The civ Romans with Mil and Ind suits Lombards, Papal States and Norman Sicily.

But now I still need a 3rd trait for them. Seafaring is out because they're landlubbers. Religious could be a contender. They did build lots of shrines and temples.

Or, I could create more traits as I did with Ag (no way to remove the overpowered food bonus on fresh water bonus). Flintlock's perfume makes sure that "Flag" improvements can be built ASAP or be generated via SW.

"Administrative" could have their own half price courthouses and police stations as well as a second forbidden palace. Suits the western romans.

"Exploitative" (raubwirtschaftlich). This trait also suits the western romans and even civs like the Mongols, whose commercial activity happened at the expense of the vast majority of those they governed. Zulus, Russians and even Malians (together with Commercial in their case) are contenders due to their heavy handed rule and extensive slave trade.

Maybe the "Exploitative" trade comes with unique city improvements to increase tax revenue and production at the expense of happiness?
1 production bonus and +50% tax revenue at the cost of 2 unhappy faces? I'm not sure if it's gonna be an actually improvement that the player can choose when to build or an SW generated one that is a requirement to build settlers (again, tks to Flintlock patch). 2 unhappy faces when your pop is 1-2 during expansion phase is quite tough. The AI also doesn't know how to use the luxury slider. Unless you want to implement a heavily perfumed "AI Luxury" improvement that costs no shields and gives something like 1 happy for 1 maintenance.