[Vote] (4-11) Imperialism and/or Free Thought Change Proposals

Approval Vote for Proposal #11 (instructions below)

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Already Looping
Dec 19, 2017
Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" for every proposal you'd be okay with if it were implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if these proposals weren't implemented. You can vote for any number of options.

All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.

VP Congress: Session 4, Proposal 11

Discussion Thread: (4-11) Proposal: Imperialism Martial Law Change (resubmission)
Proposer: @pineappledan
Sponsor: @N.Core

Proposal Details
Current Martial Law:
Yield penalties in puppeted cities reduced to 60% (from 80%).
Constabularies provide +1:c5happy:, and garrisons no longer require :c5gold:Gold maintenance.

This proposal references this implemented change from Congress 3:

(3-13a) Proposal: Authority (2/2) - Replace Militarism's Garrison bonus with Barracks requirement

  • Colonialism and Martial law are the 2 1st-tier policies in the Imperialism line. Martial Law is clearly inferior to Colonialism.
  • Martial law boosts a very bad building (constabulary) and gives a very weak gold bonus for unit maintenance reduction. Its only useful ability is the puppet yield penalty reduction, which is situational.
  • Authority lost its garrison bonus last version, so this weak one in Imperialism is the only one left
Proposed Martial Law Change:
Yield penalties in puppetted cities reduced to 60% (from 80%)
Garrisons no longer require :c5gold: Gold maintenance, and provide +1 :c5happy:, and +4 :c5culture:
(dropped constabulary bonus)

The :c5happy: bonus moves from a situational and costly building to a simple garrison bonus, making it easier to use., and consolidating a stronger incentive for Garrisons on a single policy.

VP Congress: Session 4, Proposal 11a
Discussion Thread: (4-11a) Counterproposal: Imperialism Policies Prerequisites Tweaking
Proposer: @Enginseer
Sponsor: @Enginseer

Proposal Details
Proposal: Change the ordering and prerequisites of the Imperialism Tree as follows:

Martial Law
  • Now requires Colonialism (from no requirement).
  • Unchanged.
Regimental System
  • May be unlocked from the start now (from requiring Colonialism).
  • Allows military upgrades in city-states and vassals. (moved from Exploitation)
Civilizing Missions
  • May be unlocked from the start now (from requiring Exploitation and indirectly additionally requiring Colonialism and Martial Law)
  • Now only requires Civilizing Missions (from requiring Colonialism and Martial Law).
  • No longer allows military upgrades in city-states or vassals (moved to Regimental System)
Rationale: The Imperialism tree contains a grab bag of interesting abilities, but often times you may want to focus on some of those abilities in lieu of others. Right now the tree forces you down a more specific path in most cases, and so you are having to get a number of abilities you may not care about in order to get to what you want.

In this version, the tree has been made much more flexible.
  • If you want those economic bonuses, you can still pick up Colonialism and Exploitation in 3 policies and boost your economy.
  • Want to war early and make use of those conquest bonuses? Go civilizing mission and regimental system to boost up your war power.
  • You like Exploitation but your monopoly sucks? You can go Civilizing Mission right to Exploitation to get some nice bonuses.
  • Want to go total warlord? Take the whole tree and gain ultimate power!
The tree's best old path is still intact, so this new version does not boast any true economic strength the old one did not. However, it's all about flexibility, you can choose more of what you want to gain from the tree and when, giving it a unique style. Also, the new policy shape is pretty too ;)
Spoiler What do I mean by a prettier policy shape :
It's also more unique. Look how Artistry and Imperialism have basically the same ordering. No other policy tree has the same ordering.

Spoiler Edit: Someone asked me that they wanted to test the change and see how it feels... :
You can download the attached file here and drag it to your mod folder. Activate as you want! I can't really guarantee save-game compatibility though.

VP Congress: Session 4, Proposal 11b
Discussion Thread: (4-11b) Proposal: Change to Free Thought's "+2 luxuries on Admiral use" ability
Proposer: @Legen
Sponsor: @Legen

Proposal Details
Spoiler Free Thought policy (Rationalism) :
+25% Yields for :c5greatperson: Great scientists, and +2 copies of unique Luxuries for :c5greatperson: Great admirals, when you expend them for their Instant Yield abilities. -5 :c5unhappy: Unhappiness from Religious Unrest in all cities.

Spoiler Regimental System policy (Imperialism) :
Earn :c5greatperson: Great Generals and :c5greatperson: Great Admirals 33% more quickly. The Great General and Great Admiral :c5strength: Combat Bonus aura is increased by 10%, and its radius by 1 Tile.

  • Free Thought's Great Admiral expenditure aspect moved to Regimental System.
  • Free Thought gains "+2 Visibility Range on civilian units" (great people included).


Rationalism's ability to earn more luxuries from Great Admirals is often so situational for this tree's playstyle that it may as well not exist there. Nothing in Rationalism pushes you towards building a navy, nor it allows you to purchase admirals with faith. This ability makes a lot more sense as part of Imperialism instead, and is only in Rationalism to provide it with an effect that isn't just another flavor of "more science".

As a replacement, this proposal adds a bonus to civilian units that is mainly thematic with its policy (Free Thought), much like the admiral effect is in practice. This doubles the visibility range of those units (from 2 to 4) and may find good uses for certain type of units, such diplo and missionaries; nonetheless, the intent is to give a relatively unique and flavorful effect without major changes to the tree's balance.

VP Congress: Session 4, Proposal 11c
Discussion Thread: (4-11c) Counterproposal: GA +2 lux moved to Imperialism, with no other change
Proposer: @Stalker0
Sponsor: @Legen

Proposal Details
  • Free Thought's (Rationalism) Great Admiral expenditure aspect moved to Regimental System (Imperalism)

Rationale: The original proposal did the same move, but also gave Free Thought some added visibility. I don't think this is necessary, as Rationalism loses almost nothing from this change and remains a strong tree. The visibility is a bit "out there" and doesn't feel like a thing for Rationalism to have, and may actually be a strong buff in certain cases that is not needed for the tree.
That’s a complex vote.

11 and 11a are independent options from the other choices.
11b and 11c are mutually exclusive.

I picked 11, 11a, and 11c.
I don’t think the +2 vision is Al going to stick around. I fully expect it would just end up being changed again with a deeper look into rationalism later. So I don’t see much point in adding it as a sort of plug for the GAdmiral bulb hole.

@Enginseer’s policy tree reshaping is super-duper. I wish I had more votes to give to that proposal.
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