[Vote] (4-12) Greatly Reduce Tourism Modifiers From Techs

[pineappledan]

Voting Instructions
Players, please cast your votes in the poll above. Vote "Yea" if you'd be okay if this proposal was implemented. Vote "Nay" if you'd be okay if this proposal wasn't implemented.

You can vote for both options, which is equivalent to saying "I'm fine either way", but adds to the required quorum of 10 votes in favor.

All votes are public. If you wish, you can discuss your choice(s) in the thread below. You can change your vote as many times as you want until the poll closes.

VP Congress: Session 4, Proposal 12
This proposal is an amendment and re-submission of VP Congress: Session 2, Proposal 49
This Proposal was approved, but not implemented because it had a problem with implementation: It failed to address how this change would affect the Great Firewall wonder.

Problem:
In general, SVs are uncommon, and CVs are a little too common. An obvious first step to addressing this is to prevent tech leads from directly affecting Tourism, so that a tech leader doesn't default into a CV.

There are 3 different techs that directly give a % modifier to tourism on Empire:
Radio : 15%
Computers : 15%
Internet : 100%
============
Total: +130% tourism from techs

Proposal:
Remove the 2 tech tourism modifiers on Radio and Computers and reduce the modifier on Internet to 50%:
Radio : 0%
Computers : 0%
Internet : 50%
============
Total: +50% tourism from techs

The Great Firewall wonder GFW disables enemy civs' internet tourism boost against you. Leaving 50% tourism modifier on Internet still leaves something for the GFW to turn off.
This is a more modest change than the original proposal, but does not require new code to implement.

 

[Enginseer]

Radio and Computers are roughly when we want CV players to start getting dominant with some of the other players. By Internet, the CV player should be trying to finish up. These tech modifiers exist to help it along.

The game shouldn't be "get dominant with 6 players in Renaissance and Industrial, then wait until late Information to get enough tourism to take out the culture leader". This is an issue with early sources of tourism.

I wouldn't say I like how the proposal would remove the influence of Radio and Computers (mainly) on tourism historically since they've been very influential in spreading tourism and can be helpful for ideology flipping. I would like to suggest a great reduction alternative rather than a total removal from the 2 techs.
Radio : 0% -> 5%
Computers : 0% -> 10%
Internet: 50% -> 35%
============
Total: +50% tourism from techs (the same as your proposal).

 

[rkkn]

the old post does mention the firewall though

 

[pineappledan]

the old post does mention the firewall though

But only in a hand wavey someone else will fix this with new code sort of way.

 

[rkkn]

oh I see. it looked like it was part of the proposal.

 

[Stalker0]

I wouldn't say I like how the proposal would remove the influence of Radio and Computers (mainly) on tourism historically since they've been very influential in spreading tourism and can be helpful for ideology flipping. I would like to suggest a great reduction alternative rather than a total removal from the 2 techs.
Radio : 0% -> 5%
Computers : 0% -> 10%
Internet: 50% -> 35%
============
Total: +50% tourism from techs (the same as your proposal).

radio brings out the broadcast tower…a huge tourism boost. So that tech is fine. The computer tech argument I can respect more

 

[pineappledan]

The computer tech having a tourism boosts doesn't make sense to me anyways. How would a computer contribute directly to culture without the internet?

The GFW only says that it blocks internet; it's not clear if it blocks all tourism modifiers from tech. A major reason for this was not just to reduce, but also to delay these tourism modifiers. Both Radio and Computer's modifiers should be removed for clarity and for real victory balance reasons.

 

[Enginseer]

The GFW only says that it blocks internet; it's not clear if it blocks all tourism modifiers from tech. A major reason for this was not just to reduce, but also to delay these tourism modifiers. Both Radio and Computer's modifiers should be removed for clarity and for real victory balance reasons.

But the tooltip says otherwise.

All Research Labs gain +10 Science. 99.9% reduction in effectiveness of enemy Spies in the City in which it is built. All other Cities in your Empire get a 25% reduction in enemy Spy effectiveness. Negates the Tourism bonus from the Technologies of other players.

 

[pineappledan]

mea culpa. Still, I maintain that for game CV balance reasons it makes more sense to delay it, and that computers before the internet don't need a tourism boost for either flavour or game reasons.

 

[Enginseer]

But I didn't hear a no for Radio?

 

[pineappledan]

Radio already has the broadcast tower on it. It doesn’t need a tech modifier to have a tourism flavor.

 

[N.Core]

I sponsored this.

 

[Recursive]

Proposal sponsored by N.Core.

 

[Slyceth]

Absolutely, culture victory is completely broken right now. Just last game I had to time travel 250 turns back just to snatch one wonder to prevent a civ from snowballing to culture victory. I played everything exactly the same way because I felt guilty for savescumming and just wanted to continue the fun war I was having.

 

[CromulentRomulan]

Is it possible to use this proposed change in one's local version of vox populi by editing some table/values? I am interested in trying it out

 

[N.Core]

You can add this to one of the SQL files outside VP.

UPDATE Technologies
SET InfluenceSpreadModifier = 0
WHERE Type IN ('TECH_RADIO', 'TECH_COMPUTERS');

UPDATE Technologies
SET InfluenceSpreadModifier = 50
WHERE Type = 'TECH_INTERNET';

Internet Tourism modifier is from BNW so the update query is needed.
While Radio and Computers Tourism modifiers are on IdeologyChanges.sql file on (2) Vox Populi/CSD/World Congress folder. So the related lines can be deleted there.

 

[CromulentRomulan]

thank you!

 

[saamohod]

How would a computer contribute directly to culture without the internet?

Me and my peers in teenage years got some non-negligible exposition to and interest in the Western (mostly American) culture via computer gaming for example. In the pre-internet era.

 

[Stalker0]

Me and my peers in teenage years got some non-negligible exposition to and interest in the Western (mostly American) culture via computer gaming for example. In the pre-internet era.

You could also argue that the makers of early computers set standards for adoption that are still used to this day, effectively imposing their way of doing things across the globe.

 

[saamohod]

You could also argue that the makers of early computers set standards for adoption that are still used to this day, effectively imposing their way of doing things across the globe.

Not getting this reference. Care to explain?