4.22 civilizations tier-list

[lknkomm]

Would be interested in your thoughts. Brazil/Aztecs are so low because of jungle/forest start. It is just unplayable. Slow movement, low production. Without jungle/forest they would be much higher. England get no tier, because I disable active spionage

God-tier: fast start, good bonus through all game
Top-tier: fast start OR good bonus throught all game OR game-changing feature
Ok-tier: nice bonuses, but comes too late or hard to use
Normal tier: bonuses are not that good OR comes too late

Not sorted within tiers

Domination is OP, so many war-oriented civs are quite high

 

[MIS]

Brazil S-tier for me. Why is Jungle/Forest Weak? Makes it easier to protect cities, forests are a great starting tile. I don't think the answers will be much different than 5.0 alpha.

 

[andersw]

Depends a bit on maptype and difficulty but there are so much I disagree with, however I prefer to play warmonger so...
Maya is super strong, kunas and the free GPs are amazing, UU with indirect is great.
Aztec is god like on pangea maps.
China ui is really op on pangea or big continent maps.
Huns are amazing have you tried huns? culture and gold for having skirmishers slowly chip away on cities or even city states yields go through the roof unless if you play island/archipellago maps.
Zulu dominates pangea, less exp and special promo are really strong but bad in isolation.
Babylon is one of the best civs in the game, you play almost any style and just see your science sky rocket.
I find spain meh, no science bonuses and soso UUs, carthage and netherlands soso for same reasons.
Arabia ok but not top tier, the yields in capital is ok but scales a bit slow and the synergy is not really enough for wide play.

 

[lknkomm]

Brazil S-tier for me. Why is Jungle/Forest Weak? Makes it easier to protect cities, forests are a great starting tile. I don't think the answers will be much different than 5.0 alpha.

I played as aztec and brazil and felt miserable. I don't like plantation luxuries, especially on jungle. Quarries or mines seems much better for me. Movement penalty means you move settlers slower and plant cities later.

 

[lknkomm]

Depends a bit on maptype and difficulty but there are so much I disagree with, however I prefer to play warmonger so...
Maya is super strong, kunas and the free GPs are amazing, UU with indirect is great.
Aztec is god like on pangea maps.
China ui is really op on pangea or big continent maps.
Huns are amazing have you tried huns? culture and gold for having skirmishers slowly chip away on cities or even city states yields go through the roof unless if you play island/archipellago maps.
Zulu dominates pangea, less exp and special promo are really strong but bad in isolation.
Babylon is one of the best civs in the game, you play almost any style and just see your science sky rocket.
I find spain meh, no science bonuses and soso UUs, carthage and netherlands soso for same reasons.
Arabia ok but not top tier, the yields in capital is ok but scales a bit slow and the synergy is not really enough for wide play.

Thanks, will try Maya and Huns again. First time they felt kinda weak.

 

[redrum68]

I posted this in the other thread but here is the VP 4.22 + 4UC modmod deity civ tier list that I created that is still probably still 80-90% accurate for 5.0. This assumes standard map types (pangaea, continents, fractal, communitas) and speed. Its focused primarily on consistently winning on deity with no restarts (Inca is an example of a civ with a very high ceiling but if they get a below average start location can struggle so they are rated a bit lower).

Broken - Civs that have mechanics that IMO are just broken OP and need to be adjusted. Brazil bandeirantes yields are way too high. Russia and Spain can abuse the border blob. Dutch can get way too much culture/gold early game from their UA. Mongols double attack skirmishers + ordo.

 

[lknkomm]

I posted this in the other thread but here is the VP 4.22 + 4UC modmod deity civ tier list that I created that is still probably still 80-90% accurate for 5.0. This assumes standard map types (pangaea, continents, fractal, communitas) and speed. Its focused primarily on consistently winning on deity with no restarts (Inca is an example of a civ with a very high ceiling but if they get a below average start location can struggle so they are rated a bit lower).

Broken - Civs that have mechanics that IMO are just broken OP and need to be adjusted. Brazil bandeirantes yields are way too high. Russia and Spain can abuse the border blob. Dutch can get way too much culture/gold early game from their UA. Mongols double attack skirmishers + ordo.
View attachment 747430

This looks legit.
Why Austria so high? I played 2 games and it didn't felt good. Bonuses comes late, AI always mess with CS (conquering, or spaming diplomats).
Same with Germany. Every nation that depends on CS feels weak for me.

 

[andersw]

I dont get the spain hype, I've played and tried (lower than diety) and the yields for border is just not enough and you get more faith with aztec, celts or any better warmonger with god of war/teocallis and spain performs really bad in my games (same with AI spain).

 

[redrum68]

This looks legit.
Why Austria so high? I played 2 games and it didn't felt good. Bonuses comes late, AI always mess with CS (conquering, or spaming diplomats).
Same with Germany. Every nation that depends on CS feels weak for me.

Austria is pretty much all their UA. Probably the strongest diplo civ and DV generally comes earlier than many other victories. The AI generally is not very good at stopping the human player from winning DV.
Germany is very strong with gifting units to CS and almost all their components are good. Their only weakness really is they can be a little slow at the start but if you get to mid game in a decent position they are a juggernaut.

It seems like maybe you are just undervaluing civs that have CS bonuses and DV.

 

[redrum68]

I dont get the spain hype, I've played and tried (lower than diety) and the yields for border is just not enough and you get more faith with aztec, celts or any better warmonger with god of war/teocallis and spain performs really bad in my games (same with AI spain).

I put them in the broken category because they have a border yield bonus and right now border blob is just way too strong in general. Once border blob is nerfed, then they can be rated appropriately.

 

[Thibix Magnus]

I put them in the broken category because they have a border yield bonus and right now border blob is just way too strong in general. Once border blob is nerfed, then they can be rated appropriately.

wouldn't you put Celts in the border blob category with epona? Besides how do you measure how OP border blob is? I tried a Russia deity, even got Angkor Wat, it was hilarious to reach a 1 turn border expansion rate but I was still crushed by a snowballing AI. I feel this strategy messes with my timings and delays snowballing, but I might not have the policy order right (I went for sovereignty after imperium to secure angkor wat rather than fast conquest). In any case, if nerfed it should be with caution, mixing trees is fun and you give up on tree finishers as trade-off.

I dont get the spain hype, I've played and tried (lower than diety) and the yields for border is just not enough and you get more faith with aztec, celts or any better warmonger with god of war/teocallis and spain performs really bad in my games (same with AI spain).

after seeing this playthrough I tried to use conquistadors en masse in deity, and they are indeed the actual UA, they are very scary for civs who settle on rough terrain. Preparing 2 scouts already at survivalism 3 from previous exploration is flex.

 

[redrum68]

wouldn't you put Celts in the border blob category with epona? Besides how do you measure how OP border blob is? I tried a Russia deity, even got Angkor Wat, it was hilarious to reach a 1 turn border expansion rate but I was still crushed by a snowballing AI. I feel this strategy messes with my timings and delays snowballing, but I might not have the policy order right (I went for sovereignty after imperium to secure angkor wat rather than fast conquest). In any case, if nerfed it should be with caution, mixing trees is fun and you give up on tree finishers as trade-off.



after seeing this playthrough I tried to use conquistadors en masse in deity, and they are indeed the actual UA, they are very scary for civs who settle on rough terrain. Preparing 2 scouts already at survivalism 3 from previous exploration is flex. The UA is mostly a nice bonus on turn 1, doesn't scale well.

Yeah Celts should be in the broken category as well. I forgot about their border expansion panth when I originally made the list. For border blob, I generally prefer to go full Authority then Sovereignty but other paths can work as well. The yields that you get once you have all of Authority and Sovereignty are just crazy and continue through the rest of the game.