(4-33a) Counterproposal: India GP generates 2000 pressure in each city

[Stalker0]

Counterproposal to: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/4-56-buff-indias-ua-part-1-passive-pressure.683311/


Proposal: Change India UA from - "All owned cities convert when you found a religion"

to

"When you found a religion, and for every Great Prophet created after the founding, all owned cities gain 2000 religious pressure for the founded religion"


Rationale: The original proposal and this counter are in agreement that India needs a better way to protect itself from foreign religious spread. The primary difference is, the original proposal also adds more "religious offense" to Ghandi's suite, which people may not find desirable.

This version gives Ghandi a notable pressure increase with each GP made, to help reinforce its cities against foreign religion. At the same time, it also helps you get your religion to newly founded cities or cities farther away from India's core, which right now basically requires spending GP slots. At the same time, this version is more defensive, it does not increase Ghandi's passive spread to other civs.


EDIT: Added clarifying language to confirm it is always 2000 "founding religious" pressure, and not pantheon pressure. No change in context.

 

[der_weihnachtsmann]

I agree. In my last game I had my whole continent converted and also world religion and India on a neighbouring continent still converted some cities on mine.

 

[pineappledan]

Seems like too much. Should probably make it just 2000 for founding and enhancing, imo. having it re-upped every GProphet is tens of thousands of free pressure in mid-late game on larger empires.

 

[Stalker0]

Seems like too much. Should probably make it just 2000 for founding and enhancing, imo. having it re-upped every GProphet is tens of thousands of free pressure in mid-late game on larger empires.

Which means nothing to a great prophet wrecking through your civ, which is the main complaint right now. This allows you to continuously "refresh" against such attacks.

 

[pineappledan]

The main complaint, as I see it, is that India is too brittle to get going. It can't spread to itself fast enough to get a base amount of pressure going, and the auto-convert that's currently implemented flat out doesn't work, or stops working as soon as your city grows. As a consequence of this, a foreign missionary coming in before your religion is well-established is an extinction-level event for your playthrough. But if you get enough spread early on that is addressed. Once India can get going the passive pressure works fine. At that point, piling on more instant self-spreads is overkill. You just need a couple jumpstarts early.

 

[Stalker0]

The main complaint, as I see it, is that India is too brittle to get going. It can't spread to itself fast enough to get a base amount of pressure going, and the auto-convert that's currently implemented flat out doesn't work, or stops working as soon as your city grows. As a consequence of this, a foreign missionary coming in before your religion is well-established is an extinction-level event for your playthrough. But if you get enough spread early on that is addressed. Once India can get going the passive pressure works fine. At that point, piling on more instant self-spreads is overkill. You just need a couple jumpstarts early.

I can see your point. My concern is that Indias Founding and Enhance tend to come very early, so early that its often before the "spread wars" begin. That means I will have put in my 4k of pressure ot my cities, and so when the GP wrecking ball comes in, I will be in the same boat I am today. I will only have the reform bonus left, which can be tricky for India to do without missionaries

 

[azum4roll]

With your wordings, Indian cities will gain 2000 pantheon pressure when the first prophet is born.

 

[Recursive]

Counterproposal:

Cleanse Your Cities With FIRE: +300% Uranium and +100% production towards Nuclear Weapons.

 

[Stalker0]

With your wordings, Indian cities will gain 2000 pantheon pressure when the first prophet is born.

I'll update it to clarify further, but yeah its meant to be 2000 religious pressure.

 

[Recursive]

Sponsored.

Proposal sponsored by Recursive.

 

[pineappledan]

I have to vote May. This is just way too much raw pressure sustained throughout the game to all your cities. This being an ability that Carries into the mid and late game is no bueno.